Forged Irons from Japan vs US or China – The Facts
If you’re into golf clubs or spend time reading the various golf equipment internet forums, there are occasional discussions from which you could get the impression that forged carbon steel iron heads made in Japan are superior to those made anywhere else in the world.
As a veteran of clubhead design and production with more than 35 yrs of clubhead design experience including many forged ironhead designs, I’m here to tell you the buzz about Japanese made forgings is simply not true. But first, a brief time out – as an American with some sense of sadness have to tell you that since the late 90s, the USA forging companies have either gone out of business or no longer play a significant role in the forging of clubheads. Cornell Forge of Chicago and Hoffman of Memphis, the two forging factories that ruled the golf industry for most of the 20th century are sadly gone. I can’t tell you if Wilson’s forging factory in Tennessee is still in business, but as of 1998 when I last worked with them on a project related to my work helping Golfsmith purchase the Snake Eyes name, their business was pretty much gone.
I also had a brief experience with Smith & Wesson, the US firearms manufacturer who had a short lived stint in the golf business when Snake Eyes contracted with them to make a forged carbon steel iron in the late 90s. While the man who supervised the project for S & W very definitely wanted to continue the project, he insisted they would not do so unless S & W re-made the forging dies.
Snake Eyes had contracted with a separate company to make the forging dies for this project for a lower cost and then shipped the dies to S & W to forge the heads. According to the S & W supervisor, the poor quality of the forging dies caused all sorts of problems, to the point that S & W admitted the heads were not even close to showing what they could do. Long story short, I did not re-up the project because the cost for S & W to remake the forging dies was far more expensive than we were willing to pay to continue that project.
So that leaves China as a competitor to the Japanese forging factories. It was 1994 when I became aware of the first serious attempt by a Chinese based company to do forged clubhead production. By 1998 this company (Virage Tech Industrial) was a serious contender in the production of forged clubheads in the golf industry.
Just before I founded Wishon Golf I served as a design and production consultant for Virage Tech Industrial. Based in western China, Virage Tech began business in 1994 and now counts a number of the well known US and Japanese golf companies as customers for their forged iron head production. During the time between 1994 and 2002, I had the chance to live, eat and breathe every possible part of clubhead forging design and production.
With my experience in clubhead design and specifically in forged clubhead design, I know nothing of any other China based forging companies, but I can tell you that Virage Tech most definitely knows what they are doing and does produce forged ironheads which are every bit as good as and better than any of the Japan forging companies. The sheer fact Virage Tech produces more forged iron heads for some of the largest golf companies than do any of the Japanese forging companies is itself a strong testimony to their skills.
But let’s take one more brief time out before we get into any specifics about the actual forging process. First and foremost, with ANY clubhead design, whether forged, formed or cast, the ultimate outcome of the quality and performance of the design lies far more with the designer or the clubhead product manager of the golf company than it does with the production factory. This is just as the software people like to say, “garbage in means garbage out.”
Design wise, if the creator of the head model doesn’t do his job to design each head in the set so all the dimensions and mass properties are perfect, doesn’t verify this on the tooling masters/3D models/CAD file, doesn’t check it on the initial raw forging runs, and doesn’t ensure it on the first production runs of the finished heads, it isn’t going to matter how much skill and experience the production factory has – the head model will not perform as well as one that has been managed perfectly through all its pre-production development. Period.
Now let’s talk specifics of the forging process itself.
Carbon Steel Quality. Tons of the mavens on the golf forums like to say that the steel used by the Japan forging factories is better. Malarkey. Any metallurgist will tell you that the typical carbon steel alloys used to forge ironheads are the easiest to formulate of any metal – meaning getting the right percentages of the Carbon, Manganese, Phosphorus, and Sulfur to mix in with the base metal of Iron are very easy to achieve. What’s more, any decent steel supplier will always ship specification documents with each mill run of the steel that verifies the +/- tolerances for every chemical and mechanical property of the steel based on international standards. In short, if you buy carbon steel for iron head forging from a Japanese mill or a Chinese mill which possesses the proper certifications from the various international metal standards organizations, you get the same exact steel. Period. Having seen the shipments of carbon steel at the Virage Tech factory with their mill spec certification paperwork, I can testify that in no way is the carbon steel used by the Japan forging companies any better or any different.
Forging Die Quality. Both the Japan forging companies as well as Virage Tech routinely make their forging dies from a very hard tool steel called SKD-61 alloy, which has a Rockwell hardness of HRC55-57. Here again, the chemical and mechanical properties of SKD-61 steel are verified by international certifications. As to the quality of each forging die with respect to making each head correctly, this again is a dual responsibility between the head model designer/manager of the golf club company in combination with the forging company’s tooling supervisor. If the raw forgings come out of the die at the correct weight, loft, lie, face progression, shape requirements and are within the required +/- tolerances for each, the quality of the dies is assured.
I remember when I worked briefly with the Wilson forging factory that had been the main supplier of the original Snake Eyes forged irons and wedges, upon measuring the weight of the raw forgings for each like iron or wedge head, I saw a raw forging weight tolerance of +/- 30 grams and more!
Inspecting raw forging quality at Virage Tech, I saw their weight tolerance for the raw forgings as they come out of the last forging step to be +/-5 grams – which is considered to be extremely tight for a raw forging. Wide weight tolerances in the raw forgings are a product of poor die construction as well as poor control of the actual forging process itself.
Forging Process. In touching upon the most important points of the forging process, a quality made raw forging has to achieve the following requirements;
1) A very tight weight tolerance must be achieved so when the raw forging is processed into a finished head ready to be electroplated, no real variation has to be done in the machining, grinding and finishing processes and the heads can end up with a tight finished head weight tolerance. The typical finished head weight tolerance of a forged iron head made by a quality forging factory such as Virage Tech will be +/-3g; +/-2g of that is from the production of the raw forging into the finished head ready for plating and +/-1g of that is in the plating operation itself. While +/-2g weight tolerance is capable with an investment cast head made by a quality foundry, +/-3g for a forged clubhead is as good as can be achieved.
2) The surface condition of the raw forging has to be of very high quality so that the minimum amount of material has to be removed in the machining, grinding and finishing processes to again achieve a very tight finished head quality. Consistent control of the surface of the raw forging is a matter of several things including die quality, psi force of the forging press operations, and temperature control of the raw heads during each forging step. In addition the number of dies made to forge each head in the set plays a critical role in creating raw forgings that require a minimum amount of material removal during production. The more dies, the more times the head can be compressed with each die and eventually the less excess metal (called flashing) is left on the raw forging to be removed.
3) The internal grain structure must be as uniform and isotropic as possible with the least number of “tiny holes” which are called internal voids. To achieve this, Virage Tech and the Japan forging companies chiefly use both an 800 ton and 1000 ton forging press in the production of the forged carbon steel ironheads they produce. Using a higher level of forging pressure does not ensure quality in the raw forging. Using the RIGHT forging pressure with the forging dies made precisely to match with the specific forging pressure for each forging step is what ensures the raw forgings come out with a more uniform grain structure and with a minimum of voids.
One thing I might add – to my knowledge Virage Tech was the first forging company to increase the number of forging dies and forging steps to be able to improve the outcome of all three forging requirements I listed above. The Japan forging companies followed suit after Virage Tech inaugurated this change in their forging production. I am proud to say that I had a hand in this decision when I was serving as a production consultant to Virage Tech in 2002.
The first consulting project I was handed by Virage Tech was to figure out how to improve the head to head shape consistency for a forged iron model they were making for one of the larger OEM golf companies. This particular golf company had been trying to get tour players to use this forged iron model and was hearing a few complaints from a handful of the pros that there were variations in the leading edge and toe profile shape of the same head number model in one set vs another.
In studying the model through production, I could see that after the completion of the usual 4th and final forging step to make the raw forgings, the excess flashing material squeezed to the outer edges of each head was large enough that the Virage Tech workers could make a mistake and grind too much steel off the outer edges of the toe and sole and change the profile slightly. The workers had tried using face profile templates to guide their final grinding of these surfaces, but this was not solving the problem.
I suggested that if they added on one more forging step, this would reduce the excess flashing on the outer edges of the head to a much smaller amount of excess metal that could more easily be ground off by the workers without touching the actual profile edges of each head. A 5th forging die was made for each head and the result was far less material to grind off the edges of the heads, which in turn meant all heads of the same number came out of production looking the same.
Not only did this 5th forging step improve the density consistency of the raw forgings, which in turn tightened the +/- weight tolerance of the raw forgings, but this additional forging step further reduced the number of internal voids and improved the consistency of the grain structure of the carbon steel.
Add it all up and I tend to think the one thing that the Japan forging companies actually do which leads many technically uninformed people to have the opinion the Japanese forgings are better is the simple fact the forging companies in Japan charge a much higher price than does Virage Tech for its forgings. Marketing wise, it’s a simple but often inaccurate conclusion to assume the more you pay the better the quality. Plain and simple, the price difference comes chiefly because of the labor cost differences between Japan and China.
Those are a few of the high points in this ongoing discussion of China vs Japan forgings. As always, if you have comments, that’s what our comments section for each topic is for.
Tom
Tom- Great info and know how
In the article you state that you can achieve a tolerance of +/- 3 grams. Miura claims to be able to achieve tolerances of +/- 0.5 grams. Do you find this to be a credible claim?
Tom, Wonderful discussion, and thanks for sharing knowledge.
I have always wondered why some classic forged irons feel “harder” than others- could it be the chrome plating, or something else? Example, MacGregor Muirfields, older Titleist Tour Model from the 80s feel buttery soft, but Hogan Apex PCs and Older Wilson Dynapowers from the 60s feel harder. Am I imagining this? (+1 handicap here).
JB There are a ton of variables involved that combine to dictate the final impact feel of a forged iron head that golfers will never be totally aware of. Couple that with the fact that not all golfers have the ability to feel or detect some to any of these and you have a situation where different irons can feel quite different when hit even though on the outside they may look close to the same from the standpoint of the back of the iron’s design. 1) What grade of carbon steel – Typical 1000 series carbon steel alloys range… Read more »
Tom, this discussion is, for me, more informative than your videos (if that’s possible). My question is about today’s “Form Forging” process. If I’m understanding it correctly, “Form Forged” 8620 heads are initially cast. There is some debate as to whether they are subjected to ANY kind of post casting forging process AT ALL. Note this post from Advanced Ball Striking.com: “I had the chance to play with Ron Chalmers recently who ran the Precision Golf Shaft Company for decades. They made the Apex shaft for the Hogan company among other shafts. I respect Ron and his expertise in the… Read more »
First of all Ron is completely misinformed when it comes to his comment that true forged irons are not made anymore. He may know the shaft industry but that comment about forgings is completely wrong. I know this because over the past 20 odd years or so I have worked on the side as a consultant to what is now the leading company in the golf industry that makes true forged irons and drivers as well. They most certainly do forge iron heads for most of the biggest companies that start life as a round, hot dog shaped bar of… Read more »
So you are saying that Virage Tech uses the same 800 ton forging presses as Endo?
Justin Actually Virage Tech has a 2000 ton forging press that they also use in their work which is the biggest in the golf equipment industry, along with multiple 800 ton presses. This big boy is not used for every step of the forging process because some steps just don’t require that much effort. Greater forging force when appropriate reduces the incidence and size of voids and inclusions to make the grain structure more uniform. If you want to see more visually about Virage Tech so you know I am not blowing smoke about their status in the industry now,… Read more »
“The sheer fact Virage Tech produces more forged iron heads for some of the largest golf companies than do any of the Japanese forging companies is itself a strong testimony to their skills.” I would argue that it is equal or indeed greater testimony to their ability to mass produce at lower costs – an issue you refer to in discussing Mizuno in the reply section. Your quoted argument is a non-sequitur introduced to reinforce your attempt to enhance the credibility of Chinese forgers.
IAN And I would argue in response that this matter of Virage Tech plucking off most of the industry’s forged iron business from the Japanese forging houses is not anything new in the industry and that these changes are not predicated all or chiefly by a lower cost. Once investment casting became a significant way to make a clubhead in the mid 60s, all the golf companies had their heads cast by the California foundries. There were Asian investment casting factories capable of making metal woods and irons as early as 1972. By the mid 80s there were nearly 100… Read more »
Hi Tom I am about to build my own custom set of irons. After doing 2 different demos and tested different shafts and hitting many shots, the best shaft for me is the X100. However, I couldn’t try the DG X7, but according to everything I’ve read it feels the same as the X100 and it has lower spin and lower launching, which is exactly what I seek. Hence, I will use the DG X7 in my new set of irons. However I haven’t decided what head to use for my new irons. I was considering the following options: Nike… Read more »
MANUEL: We certainly appreciate your interest in our technical acumen but we really cannot answer your question. I design only my own head models and I have nothing to do with any other company or their various models of clubheads. So I know nothing about any other company’s design models and cannot offer any information about them. I am always happy to answer questions about design technology or fitting technology but you asking me about my recommendation for another company’s head designs is the same as asking Mizuno or Miura which Wishon design they would recommend – do you think… Read more »
Hi Tom, I did try to reach Juan Luis Ezcurra to try your blades – it looks like he is the only Wishon club fitter in Madrid. However, I haven’t been succesful yet. I understand the question I posted can we a conflicting one.
Manuel
MANUEL
Let me ask the people at Diamond Golf in the UK to look into this and see what they can find to help you. I will ask them to comtact you directly to let you know what they can find out. Be patient, I will forward your comment here to them and give them a day or two to respond.
TOM
Tom I was wondering about where the Single Length Iron heads were made. Thanks for being so precise.
Brandon The Sterling single length iron heads are manufactured by Virage Tech Industrial at their new factory in Chengdu, China. VT is the leading forging factory in the golf industry now and is the primary maker of the Taylor Made and Callaway forged iron models as well as a primary raw forging supplier to Titleist and Mizuno. I have known the owner since he started the company in 1994 and was his first customer so that is why he still manufactures non-forged heads for several of my models like the Sterling, the 950 woods, 929 woods, 775 hybrids and 771… Read more »
funny I should end up here, I was searching for forged stainless irons and I saw your post. If anyone should know it would be you. It was you that made my iron game perfect. Cutting the length of the irons 3/8 of a inch on down was a Godsent. except from the 8 through the wedges all the same length as the 8 iron. Another thing that I got from you was the Dynacraft Innerdyn irons. Picked up a set at Play it Again Sports for $19.00 like new. Nice hitting clubs, which got me to thinking about a… Read more »
Stuart Thanks very much for tripping across us in your search for forged stainless irons. You won’t find many, if any, forged stainless irons today because virtually every company that decides to do a forged iron will opt for doing it from a softer grade of carbon steel and not from any of the softer grades of stainless. Performance wise forging soft stainless is fine and 99.999% of all golfers could never tell a difference between that and carbon steel. But PSYCHOLOGICALLY, most golfers in search of a forging are convinced that carbon steel is better, which is wrong. But… Read more »
Tom, it’ Stu Anderson again, A couple of things. I see Wilson brand was sold to a group in China. I would think that the forging plant you worked with will be involved. The next thing is were with Golfsmith when they purchased Macgregor? If so how did they capitalize on the MT irons?
Stuart Wilson’s forging factory used to be located in Tullahoma, TN. I only had contact with this factory when I was with Golfsmith and the company bought all the assets of Snake Eyes from bankruptcy. Snake Eyes had their wedges and irons forged at the Wilson plant. And not very well I might add because in going over the raw forgings the tolerances were worse than awful. Farther out of spec than I had ever seen on any heads, anywhere in my career. So we tossed every single one of these heads because they were simply not worth anything. For… Read more »
Stu again,your book, search for the perfect driver. This has to be what everyone is looking for. They won’t find in the market today. It was in the Callaway E.R.C ll driver. A bore through titanium forged head. The problem was the early shafts that were used were not stable. Put a Matrix msf white tie 60×4 stiff flex shaft and you got the best of both worlds.That driver being nonconforming is b.s. The only thing the adjustable hotel is good for is fitting. Once Tiger finds the right setting he epoxeys the whole thing together. The next time we… Read more »
Hi Stu: Truly there is no advantage of any sort to a through bore type of hosel design in a driver or wood. A conventional hosel in which the shaft tip stops well below the sole offers plenty of “stability” for the shaft. However, with a through bore the same shaft will play a lot stiffer than it will in a conventional hosel so the shaft flex has to be changed with calculations required for whether to tip the shaft and how much. For example, the typical normal hosel stops the tip of the shaft about 2″ above the sole.… Read more »
Hi Tom: I play the Miura 1957 small blade irons, 3 through PW. I’m looking for a blade iron that is even smaller than the 1957. I’m sold on the look and feel of the small blade but after using them for a few yeas they seem BIG. Can you help me out. Thanks, appreciate your insight.
Michael Not having one of the 57 blades in my hands to do measurements, it is just not possible for me to be fully accurate in advising you. I can only go on memory from way back when I would see more of the 50-60s forgings which were smaller than what you see today. I would say that if you can, take a look at the 575MMC muscleback version I designed. It is smaller in overall blade size than what most other companies’ blade models are today. But I cannot tell you how it compares to the size of the… Read more »
oh really? sounds like a load of noise to me..so why does a mizuno feel better and softer.. the quieter sounds proves this.
OK, how about this. Three years ago Mizuno began to purchase raw forgings from this forging foundry in Chengdu, China for their models. Titleist, Callaway and Taylor Made do too. Wonder why they would do that? Lower price? I would doubt that, Mizuno has always been known to look at quality first. Until you have the chance to really look and live on the inside of the golf equipment industry, it is very difficult to know what is truth and fiction. I am simply putting some light on what’s been going on in the equipment industry that golfers who are… Read more »
I’m looking for blank RH satin blades.. 6-pw just the heads. Please let me know if this is something u can do
PHIL
Very sorry, we cannot help you as a source for completely plain blade heads.
TOM
Mr Wishon: In the 5th. step of the mentioned forging process, is the die reheated or flashed
The 5th forging step is to hit the head after the flashing is removed one more time with a die that packs the steel more densely and reduces the final flashing to a very small and narrow line of material that is removed very easily from the outer edges of the head. So not only are there fewer and much smaller voids in the grain structure of the steel which makes the raw forgings MUCH more consistent for weight but it also reduces the amount of grinding to clean up the heads to prepare them for machining and plating. That… Read more »
Thanks for all the great information on forged clubs. I have a set of Founders Club Tour C B irons (2-pw) with Rifle 6.0 shafts with only the iron number on the sole. I am the original owner and believe these were forged and made in the U. S. at the Hoffman Company. Is there any way to verify where they were made?
JOE thanks for taking the time to pay us a visit and drop us a note ! Unfortunately there have never been ID marks on any of the raw forgings that were made either by Hoffman or by Cornell, the two firms who were the main suppliers of raw forgings to the golf industry back before the 1990s. Most raw forgings are made with a raised metal ID marking that designates the head number but this is ground off during the production process and there are no other markings to indicate who did the actual raw forging of the heads.… Read more »
I don’t play your clubs and hadn’t heard about your brand until a quick google search on forgings revealed this article. What prompts this comment is the bias in your article. It seems you have written this in an attempt to put a Chinese manufacture on the same footing as those in Japan. My guess is that your clubs didn’t meet product volume requirements or would be too expensive to produce in the houses that manufacture Japanese forged irons today and you (self-admittedly) have limited options outside of China. Mizuno’s relationship dates back over 40 years with a mill that… Read more »
PETER Hmmm. . . then why have Taylor Made, Callaway and Titleist all dropped their Japan forging vendor in the past 2 yrs to have their forgings made by the top forging company in China? If you take a look at Taylor made’s most recent TV commercial showing their forgings being made, I guarantee you that was shot in the Virage Tech factory in Chengdu, China. I guarantee you these companies’ decision to switch vendors was not done 100% on the basis of cost savings because all these companies have a reputation to defend that they certainly would not want… Read more »
I’m a big fan of forged irons. My previous two sets were Mizuno. I presently play a set of Miura 1957 Small Blades and I love them. The problem is I would like to get a smaller set of small head irons but can’t find any. Is there a set of irons out there smaller and as good as the Miura 1957’s. Thanks.
MIKE: I can tell you that the overall head size of our model 575MMC forged irons, both the cavity and blade versions, are more compact and a little smaller than what you typically see from all of the other companies today that offer forged carbon steel iron models. Both are the typical low offset with a very decent sole grind. All of my forgings are manufactured by Virage Tech Industrial who are really the “new talented kid on the block”, so to speak. VT has been around for over 20 yrs, but with expansions in tech capabilities 4-5 yrs ago,… Read more »
All good reading – I wonder if the design of ‘iron’s’ has stalled somewhat. Not withstanding PGA strictures of the kit, driver design now includes user adjustable angles. A neat trick that seems to work, demonstrating how modern golf balls behave differently to the 80’s. If modern US made steel shafts (US R&D still engaged) now offer the best performance in weight and ballistic characteristics for fairway and short game, perhaps head technology needs to be – well… ‘adjustable’ ie., easily adjusted or replaced without jigs and glue). Just a thought given the history of club forging technology. Great blog… Read more »
RICHARD First off, the introduction of modern adjustable hosel clubheads is not new but it is highly misunderstood for what it does, what it can and cannot do. In short, it cannot replace REAL custom clubfitting. If you are interested in that topic, I recommend this video we created some months ago to explain it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aj5KOk2oXU0 Iron head design is pretty much stalled. The two main PERFORMANCE related things that have driven iron design over the past many years have been ever increasing the MOI of the head to keep trying to improve off center hit distance, and more lately… Read more »
Tom,
Doing a research project on US forging Companies. Clearly you are very knowledgeable in this field.
Any chance we could discuss in detail my project and allow me to leverage some of your knowledge?
Thanks.
KIP
How can I help? Best to email me through contact@wishongolf.com because too many years playing drums with very loud amplifiers right behind me many years ago has trashed my hearing now to where phone conversations are very frustrating to the caller as well as to me.
TOM
Great thread! I’m 52 and started playing when I was 9. My 1st set of quality irons were Hogan Directors for my 8th grade graduation. Anyway always been a forged guy although toy with Pings on occasion. 2 main questions: 1. Were the old Spalding Tour Editions Hoffman forged? Heard they were and hands down softest irons I have ever hit. Still play them on occasion. Question 2. I agree as noted above that Mizunos play/feel soft and Titleist plays harder more clicky. Can this be due to the finishing process and the about and quality and type of chrome… Read more »
ED: You are correct in knowing that one of the golf industry’s raw forging suppliers back before the 1980s-90s was Hoffman Forge of Memphis. The other one which was older, larger and supplied more of the golf companies was Cornell Forge of Chicago. Both of these companies were out of the business by the late 1980s to early 90s, mainly because investment casting had taken over so much as the predominant form of iron head production by then. Also because Wilson Golf Company had opened up their own forging factory in Tullahoma, TN that took a fair bit of what… Read more »
Dear Mr Wishon, I have enjoyed reading your comments: even the technical stuff you are able to reduce to the comprehensible for the non-expert. That you can achieve this at all levels is a mark of some-one who not only knows his stuff, but is a great communicator. Thanks and congratulations. I have owned/tested/trialled/tinkered with countless sets of irons. The best teacher? trial and error and experience. Feel (before, at and after impact) for me, is very important and very personal, and in practical terms, is a function of countless variables: including head weight and design, shaft weight & weight… Read more »
PETER Thanks very much for the kind comments and for your interest. I have always wanted to share everything I have learned in all my many years of research and work in this field because there has always been so much bad information out there to mislead golfers that sadly comes more from marketing efforts to try to sell more clubs than from solid truthful technical information. For players with a LOT of experience in playing the game who are also reasonably accomplished in the game, you are right to say that feel plays a huge role in determining if… Read more »
Hi Tom,
Did you ever do any work with the Kahler team out of California / Nevada? They were making forged irons in the mid 1990’s and early to mid 2000’s I think? They made a lot of Snake Eyes wedges I think.
David
David No, I am not familiar with any forging company that was in California or Nevada. When I was an officer with Golfsmith from 93 to 01, in 1998 I was part of the team from GS that worked on purchasing Snake Eyes after they went bankrupt. My job was to handle all of the aspects related to Snake Eyes’ production vendors and left over inventory. To my knowledge from that experience, Snake Eyes had their heads forged chiefly by the forging factory in Tullahoma, TN that was owned by Wilson Sporting Goods. And they did one iron project with… Read more »
I noticed one of these posts touting the feel of their Mizuno’s and you pointed that out as being preference perhaps & brand loyalty. I have carried titleist forged and can also attest to the hardness of the steel compared to Mizuno. The mizuno steel is softer. No other brand of forged club that I’ve ever carried in my bag gets dinged so much as Mizuno from bag chatter. I doubt that’s a matter of forging and more a matter of the steel being softer and a different tempering process. Its very obvious compared to older clubs how soft Mizunos… Read more »
BOB Most every forging factory will use what are called “10-series carbon steels” to forge their carbon steel iron heads. There are several different 10 series carbon steel alloys from 1020 up to 1070. In the AISI nomenclature for steels, the 10 means it is a carbon steel while the second two digits indicate the percentage of carbon with the iron in the steel. So 1020 means 0.20% carbon while the upper end of the 10 series of 1070 means it is made with 0.70% carbon with the iron to make the steel. The higher the percentage of carbon, the… Read more »
Hi Tom – thanks for all your fantastic work and input into the world of golf. It’s really impressive that you take the time share so much of your knowledge and experience. I have been collecting forged irons for a few years, and I have managed to acquire a few sets of vintage forged stainless steel irons. I have a few questions regarding stainless steel forgings which I am hoping you can comment on: Firstly, how does the softness of forged stainless compare to forged carbon steel? Because the forged stainless blades I have hit feel wonderfully soft, solid and… Read more »
Simeon: Thanks for your kind comments. I have always enjoyed learning everything I can about golf clubs and their performance, and from that, have always enjoyed sharing anything I learned along the way with anyone who is interested themselves. Most forged stainless irons would have been forged from softer grades of stainless steel, many which do have the same Rockwell B85 range of hardness typical to carbon steel alloys. However, as you well know, there is a HUGE range in the mechanical properties in stainless steel so there is always a chance that some set of forged stainless irons could… Read more »
Thanks for the very informative article Tom.
What do you know about Hogan’s forgings. Were they done in Ft. Worth or elsewhere? What was the characteristic of their forgings that make their clubs feel so solid over 30 years later?
On the manufacturing side, how many sets can be made from one set of dies?
Thanks again and I always look forward to your posts.
TOM I had a project that I worked on with the Hogan company back in the late 80s so I was in their factory a few times. They sourced their raw forgings from both Hoffman of Memphis and Cornell Forge from Chicago, as every company did back then. But they did all the post forging machining, grinding and even chrome plating in house at their Ft Worth factory. Raw forging “science” just wasn’t at the level it is today with today’s greater understanding of forging processes vs internal grain structure of the metal. So to my knowledge from back then,… Read more »
i am interested in bettering my golf game. with a limiting budget , i have tried several different iron sets. one is a smith and wesson forged snakeeye set, missing a 9 iron. my question… can you recommend an older set of blades which you feel are still great to use today.thought i could look around for such. would i need to reshaft? thank you in advance for your insights. steve
STEVE: I would stay away from the Smith & Wesson set. BAck in 1998 I was part of the team at Golfsmith that negotiated to buy the assets of Snake Eyes when they went bankrupt. As part of that work, I had to deal with everything concerning Snake Eyes existing products, including the S&W irons. They were very poorly designed, with a very flat, sharp edged sole design that is simply a bad design. I recall talking to the S&W people about this set and they told me that the tooling was handed to them to make – they did… Read more »