S2S SHAFT TRIMMING CHARTS
WOOD SHAFT TRIMMING
Use Trim Chart A for:
S2S White: R, S Flexes
S2S Red: R, S Flexes
S2S Black 85: R, S, X Flexes
S2S Blue 55: R, S Flexes
Use Trim Chart B for:
S2S Green: R Flex (add 2″ to all entries for S Flex)
S2S Green: AA (L) Flex; (add 2″ to all entries for A Flex)
S2S White: A Flex
S2S Blue 45: AA, A Flexes
S2S Ruby Lite: AA, A Flexes
IRON SHAFT TRIMMING
Use Trim Chart C for:
S2S White Iron: R, S Flexes
S2S Red Iron: R, S Flexes
S2S Black 85 Iron: R, S Flexes
S2S Blue 55 Iron: A, R Flexes
S2S Smooth Steel: R, S Flexes
S2S Superlite Steel: R, S Flexes
Use Trim Chart D for:
S2S White Iron: A Flex
S2S Blue 55 Iron: AA Flex
S2S Green Iron: AA Flex (L) Flex; (add 1″ for Green A Flex)
S2S Green Iron: R Flex; (add 2″ for Green S Flex)
HYBRID SHAFT TRIMMING
Use Trim Chart E for:
S2S White Hybrid: A, R, S Flexes
S2S Blue 55 Hybrid: AA, A, R Flexes
S2S Black Hybrid: R, S Flexes
S2S Red Hybrid: R, S Flexes
S2S Ruby Lite: AA, A Flexes
Note: Ruby Lite Wedge shaft – 0″ tip trim for AA Flex; 1″ tip trim for the A Flex; Butt trim to desired playing length.
RUBY LITE TRIM CHART
Note: Ruby Lite Wood & Hybrid Iron shafts are discrete flex;
S2S Ruby Lite Wedge is an AA/A combination flex shaft.
730CL STANDARD ASSEMBLY CHART
Note: The reason we offer a length range for the 730CL assembly is to correspond to golfers who may play better with a shorter or a little longer length as dictated by their wrist-to-floor measurement and playing ability. In all cases when building the 730CL clubs to the shorter lengths, more weight will have to be added to the clubheads using the weight bore in the hosel and weight bore in the sole.
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Sorrry again Tom. The shaft has a black band with a “r” in it,
Dave
DAVID The S2S Black is ordinarily a shaft that is designed for players with a late to very late unhinging of the wrist-hinge angle on the downswing. Normally at standard lengths and at standard tip trims, the Black R would be a little bit too stiff for a player with a 130-140 yd carry distance with an EQ 7 iron. But if you go with +1″ longer length, meaning the irons would be 37.5″ instead of 36.5″, that would help to soften up the shaft a little bit. YOu could also reduce the normal tip trimming by a half inch… Read more »
Hi Tom, In your experience how should one tip trim a full set of irons that have been constructed using MOI vs. the normal swingweight method? What if one were to construct a set of irons using a different shaft length progression such as 3/8″ or even 1/4″ vs. the normal 1/2″ between clubs. What are your thoughts on using a different “frequency” slope from the implied trimming charts provided by the shaft manufacturer (i.e. instead of trimming a 1/2″ extra as you progress through the set vs. somthing else)? How does a club fitter even come up with a… Read more »
Nathan The answer to all your questions in a large part boils down FIRST to just how thin do you want to split the hair for the golfer you are working with. I worked with a tour player years ago who could feel the difference of 1 swt, 2cpm, and 3 grams in a golf club. I have also worked with one that couldn’t significantly detect well more than twice that level of span in a club. Same with mid handicap amateurs as well. Most of us are born with average to below average abilities when it comes to detecting,… Read more »
Tom long time fan of yours back to Golfsmith I loved the ceramic driver head what was it about 380cc.My question for you is I will be making a 919F/D for moir.I,m 72 now so l,m going with the green shaft.I,m making it 44 inches about D-0 should I tip trim the green at driver spec or the amount recommended for a fairway would appreciate your advice thanks Mike.
Michael Many thanks for stopping by !!! Good to hear from you and thanks so much for your continued interest, for sure! Do keep in mind that the S2S Green is a combination flex shaft. WE offer this shaft in an R&S combination flex as well as in an A & L version. So to get the stiffer of the two flexed contained within each of the Green shafts, you do have to perform an initial tip trim. Then after that, you would do no more tip trimming for the driver at 44″. Only if the player had a very… Read more »
Hi Tom,
I have a question that is often asked by my customers and I really don’t have a great answer. What makes a golf shaft with the same basic published specs (65g, S flex, 4.0, High Launch, etc) as another worth $200 more than the less expensive shaft. I know, loaded question. But narrow it down Fujikura Ventus vs Vista Pro where they both publish the same basic performance spec.. looking forward to hearing your take on this.
Thanks
Tony
TONY Thanks for the question. What makes one shaft with the same specs worth $200/$300? Marketing and Image and the knowledge on behalf of the company that people easily perceive something more expensive as being better and love to show off expensive things they buy to generate envy. I kid you not. This whole disaster of super high dollar shafts began over in Japan where it is well known that consumers believe quality to be associated with price and people who can’t afford the expensive products can envy those who can. Because some of the most popular shafts on tour… Read more »
Thank you Tom for that very clear answer. Exactly as I thought, marketing. I didn’t think science would fail me. If the frequency profile, weight, torque and balance points are similar, how could one shaft cost so much more than another. Even with “super materials” if the performance measures are the same, what could be different in how the ball flies? I always equate this marketing to bottled water. I’ve been in bottling operations where they fill the water bottle from the same holding vats, and the Kroger water bottle sells for .25 cents but the XXX name brand bottle… Read more »
TONY
May I say I absolutely love your analogy to bottled water!!!!!
TOM :>)
Hi Tom Having looked at many slow motion, high fps, videos with pros on youtube it looks like their shafts are bend at impact, however, bend in the case where the mid-point of the club surface has overtaken the mid-point of the shaft. Hands are still in front of the club face, but the club face is in front of a (imaginary) line thru the handle. Maybe easier to explain here: looking at a right handed golfer in front view, the mid-point of the shaft points towards his trail knee (right leg, right handed golfer), i.e. the mid-point of the… Read more »
THOMAS It is very difficult to see the actual amount of bending in a shaft during the swing and especially before impact. All of this action happens so fast and so subtly that it is hard to see even with the video at slow motion. Also it is very common for camera lenses to be fooled by the bending of the shaft through something called rolling shutter effect. But I definitely can describe exactly how a shaft bends coming into impact so you can have a better level of understanding for this. When the golfer begins the downswing, depending on… Read more »
Dear Mr. Wishon
I’m building a set of 575mmc with graphite shafts for a friend . When it comes to the swing weight could I use a steel iron plug that goes down in the hosel port instead of a graphite tip weight? It seems the plug ( if you will ) would be easier. What would you recommend?
BOBBY All of my iron and wood and hybrid models are manufactured with a hosel weight bore located at the bottom of the shafting bore. These are designed to accept one of four different hosel bore weights that we offer – 2g and 4g in brass and 6g and 9g in tungsten. For most swingweight needs the weight bore should be enough for the weight addition needed to get to the swingweight you desire. However there can be situations depending on the length or shaft weight or grip weight where you fill the weight bore with the largest/heaviest 9g weight… Read more »
Thank you so much, Mr. Wishon. I just looked at the video of his swing and you’re right on the money with his swing. He loaded so much behind the ball at top position so he moves his head slightly forward toward the target and his head is just about 2″-3″ behind the ball at impact. Thank you for the knowledge and the valuable time. Have a wonderful and blessed day.
Pattara
Dear Mr. Wishon, My son has a driver SS between 115-118 mph. We noticed that the angle of attack is about 1.8-2.5* negative. I was told that the shaft that would benefit him the most would be a shaft with El profile of stiff butt, soft mid, and very stiff tip in order to reduce his back spin, as his back spin is in the 3200 range. He’s hitting them between 295-310 yards, but his fairway hit average is between 10-12 out of 14 per round, so we don’t really want to change it. He is using the Fujikura Rombax… Read more »
PATTARA There are many things that could be discussed about your son’s shot performance, which I will be happy to do. However, in all honesty, the results he is getting with his current driver are quite good and very competitive with other players of his age so I would first say that you really do not need to change anything. But I will offer some comments. First of all, you did not say what brand and model of launch monitor was used to record his spin of 3200 rpms. You also did not say whether he was hitting range balls… Read more »
Dear Mr. Wishon, First of all, thank you so much for your time and prompt response. I collected the data from EBC at PGA National in west palm beach, where they had him hit 14 drives between 2 flags about 35 yards wide, and didn’t even charge us for anything. They use Trackman and Titleist ProV1X, which happens to be the same ball my son is currently using, for the data collection. We live in Texas and although the back spin may have resulted in some of the yardage loss, the ball still roll here in Texas. We competed in… Read more »
PATTARA Based on your additional information, I have to say that it sounds like your son needs to be working with a GOOD teacher to reduce that negative angle of attack into the ball. The fact that you say the shot shape is “ballooning” and falling short and falling straight down is indeed an indication of too much spin which is almost always coming from being too steep into the ball. If your son chooses to work with a teacher to change his angle of attack, you will have to expect that there will be some time in the process… Read more »
Just found in my garage a couple of boxes of spanking brand new sets of irons club heads I never got around to using…Dynacraft Vari-Steel (1-SW), and Dynacraft Dyna-Torque Semi-Thru-Bore (2-SW). Packing slip says I bought from Dynacraft June 1993. I’ve saved enough money to buy shafts now and want to glue clubs up so I can use them. Can’t find trimming instructions that came with the order. The Dyna-Torque “bore thru” shorter hosel hole is about 3/8″ deeper than regular Vari-Steel hosel. Should I just trim 3/8″ less off tip of shafts for Dyna_Torque club heads than Vari-Steels using… Read more »
CONNELL How about that, finding those sets untouched after all these years. I do remember the Vari Steel irons quite clearly but I am not nearly as coherent on the Dyna Torque iron design. It’s what comes after 31 yrs of designing heads and about 350 different design models during that time !! At any rate, the tip trim instructions for ANY iron model are always based on the distance from the bottom of the shafting bore, or rather where the shaft tip stops in the hosel, to the ground or flat surface upon which the head sits. A standard… Read more »
Hi,
I have a 959 driver that is the BEST and will never change! I want to know how similar the 919THI is? What are the design differences?
The shaft in my driver is a Graphite design Reg shaft and has 16 gr tour lock weights in my grips and for me it made a huge improvement for me. The driver was built originally D 2. What does adding 16 gr to the butt do to the swing weight?
GUY The 959 was one of the driver heads I designed in the past to INTENTIONALLY be over the USGA limit for the COR of the face. I designed this for golfers who strictly played for fun and never to be used in any official competition. We did state this very clearly in the catalog and on our website presentations for this model. We do take the rules seriously but we also see that there are golfers who only wish to play for fun and not in any competition. So that was why I had designed the 959. However, in… Read more »
I am 6ft 3 inches tall with average strength / medium swing speed and am looking at a second hand set of Sterling single length irons 36.5 inches Reg flex S2S blue shafts. Do you think these could suit me?
DON More than your height, your measurement of the distance from the wrist to the floor of your left hand (upper hand on the grip) is more of the indicator for when we would fit someone with a single length that would be greater than 36.5″. In general if the W to F measurement is 36″ or more, it would be better to move the golfer into a single length of 37″. If that W to F is over 38″, then it gets to the point the single length should be approaching 37.5″ for the golfer to be comfortable setting… Read more »
Hi Tom, if I cut my driver shaft at the butt to make it play 43.5 inches, how will the flex be affected. It’s a taylormade m2 driver with a graphite design ad di 6 x shaft. The driver currently is 45 inches. Thanks,
Mel
MEL: If you cut from 45 to 43.5″ AND IF YOU RESTORE THE SWINGWEIGHT TO WHAT IT WAS BEFORE THE CUT, then the effect on the shaft will be minimal to hardly noticeable. This is because the increase in stiffness that comes from cutting it shorter is then offset by the presence of more headweight to elicit a bending influence on the shaft during the swing. If you cannot or do not restore the swingweight after the cut, then the shaft will play a little stiffer but the main thing you would notice if you skipped the swingweight re adjustment… Read more »
Hello Tom.im looking at building a driver at 43.5..Can I use a three wood shaft because it plays that length when installed in driver..How will the flex and swing weight perform.and can I put a 5 wood shaft in my three wood to play at 42.5..
COLIN In a set of woods made with the same shaft model and flex, the shaft in the driver is installed with 0 tip trim, the shaft in the 3w is installed with 1″ tip trim and the shaft in the 5 wood is installed with 2″ cut from the tip before installation. Then for all woods, after installation the shaft is cut from the grip end to achieve the desired playing length for each wood. Whenever you cut the tip of the shaft, you are increasing its stiffness. The reason shafts are tip trimmed for the 3w and 5w… Read more »
Thanks Tom..I have my driver playing at 43.5 now and my 3 wood and hybrid perfect length.The reason I went to this length was to hit the middle of club all the time.and the switch has been a great help for my game.now I’m still having the odd drive that hits the toe or heel..So I experimented with lead tape in different locations on shaft.tried on driver and woods.when I put 50grams of lead tape just below bottom of grip on the shaft it felt great and everything about my swing improved.I can’t leave this tape on because it’s off-putting… Read more »
COLIN There are specially made counterweights that are designed to lock into the grip end of the shaft. Here is a link to show you what I mean – https://www.golfworks.com/tour-lock-pro-weights/p/TL0001/?gclid=CI7Qz9jIl9ICFcW1wAodSw0IYw . This type of counterweight also has a special cutter tool available that fits into an electric hand drill to enable you to cut a proper size hole through the end of the grip so you can drop the weight into the end of the shaft and lock it in place. Or you can remove the grips, install the weight, and re install the grips over the top of the… Read more »
I’m building a 21 degree 3 hybrid with an s2s shaft at 38.5 inches to go with a set of sterling single length irons at 37 inches. I’m trying to get a normal distance gap between the sterling 23 degree 5 iron and the 21 degree hybrid. How much of the shaft would you tip trim if building at the 38.5 inch length and adding 18 grams to the head.
Kourt
The normal most widely seen length people make the 21* hybrid in our line is 39″. So for it being -1/2″ shorter, that really won’t cause the shaft to be much stiffer. A tiny bit that only a really experienced feel sensitive player could notice. So I would tip trim the S2S hybrid shaft the same amount as for normal length. Then just be sure to do a good job of fitting/choosing the right swingweight for the golfer based on his tempo/transition force and sense of feel for the headweight vs his swing tempo/timing.
TOM
Tom, Thank you for that explanation. I know some shaft trimming charts have one spec for glued hosels and a slightly different spec for adapter based hosels. I suppose a 1/4″ to 1/2″ off the tip vs off the butt shouldn’t make a considerable difference. Thanks again.
Don
I have a s2s white stiff flex shaft on the way that will be installed in a Cobra adapter (ZL head). I would like the final driver length to be 44.5″. I would also like the shaft to play as true to flex as possible. How would I go about trimming the shaft for the adapter with the final length and flex in mind.
Thank you
Don
DON I am sorry but the only way we could tell you how much to trim in total to achieve a 44.5″ length and to make the flex play as true as possible in this Cobra head is if we had the Cobra head so we could measure its hosel length and distance from the bottom of the adapter to the ground. within our company we do design our head models so that the “true flex” of each of our shafts is achieved with the normal tip trim instructions we provide in the catalog and on our website. But because… Read more »
Tom,
Please confirm that the Future Pro Junior clubs are all just butt trimmed? What is your recommended length setup for juniors?
EDWIN
Please send us an email at contact@wishongolf.com and request the tip trim instructions for the FUTURE PRO junior iron shafts. We have developed a trim chart that adjusts the tip trim based on the size and strength of the junior player involved. With this we also have a chart and information on what lengths we recommend per each different age group and size of juniors.
TOM
Under Trim Chart D there is a note that reads: add 1″ for S2S Green A flex. Please specify exactly what that means. Thanks.
JASON The S2S Green shafts are combination flex shafts, meaning the A and AA flexes come from the same master shaft. To get the stiffer of the two flexes in the shaft which is the A flex, you have to tip trim more than what is called for to get the AA flex from the shaft. Hence the trim chart is set up to ordain first the tip trims for the AA flex. The reference note then is offered to tell clubmakers to add 1″ to these tip trims to get the A flex from the combination S2S green shafts.… Read more »
will be needing a driver shaft within the next 5 days with a > Titlelist 910 D3 adaptor and will need your assistance helping my son > into the desired wt/freq. of shaft. I will want the playing length of > shaft to be at 43.25 Son is 18, began playing golf at the age of 6, > plays to a 2 hcp. Has late release, covers the ball, hits hard, in > control medium tempo has a tendacy to hit down with irons and does the > same with the driver. Trackman 2013: Driver Attack angle was -3 to… Read more »
Edmund Sorry for the delay in responding. We had a few technical glitches with our website that caused the delay in responding. It is VERY difficult without seeing your son swing OR without being able to get his feedback, to know what shaft HE is going to like. Based on his swing and launch information you provided, ON PAPER the Kaili should be a shaft that is a little too flexible in the tip section. But since you say he likes that shaft, that makes it more difficult to predict what other shaft design he would like or dislike FROM… Read more »