S2S Shaft Trimming Chart

TWGT S2S Shaft Trimming Charts

The following charts show the standard trimming and installation instructions for all of the TWGT S2S Shaft Fitting System shafts. These charts simply indicate the normal trimming and installation procedures for each shaft and may be altered by the clubmaker for custom shaft fitting and installation purposes for each golfer.

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Shaft Trimming for Woods

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Shaft Trimming for Iron, Hybrid and Wedge Shafts

 

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TWGT 730CL Assembly & Ruby Lite Shaft Trimming

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28 Comments

  1. Thank you so much, Mr. Wishon. I just looked at the video of his swing and you’re right on the money with his swing. He loaded so much behind the ball at top position so he moves his head slightly forward toward the target and his head is just about 2″-3″ behind the ball at impact. Thank you for the knowledge and the valuable time. Have a wonderful and blessed day.
    Pattara

  2. Dear Mr. Wishon,
    My son has a driver SS between 115-118 mph. We noticed that the angle of attack is about 1.8-2.5* negative. I was told that the shaft that would benefit him the most would be a shaft with El profile of stiff butt, soft mid, and very stiff tip in order to reduce his back spin, as his back spin is in the 3200 range. He’s hitting them between 295-310 yards, but his fairway hit average is between 10-12 out of 14 per round, so we don’t really want to change it. He is using the Fujikura Rombax Z7z08 in X stiff with Titleist 915D3 8.5* head set at 9*. Any recommendation for another shaft that will benefit him more. I am thinking about the Ahina 72X, Rogue Max 75 X, Rogue Silver or perhaps the Tour Green X flex in 70 grams range.

    • PATTARA

      There are many things that could be discussed about your son’s shot performance, which I will be happy to do. However, in all honesty, the results he is getting with his current driver are quite good and very competitive with other players of his age so I would first say that you really do not need to change anything. But I will offer some comments. First of all, you did not say what brand and model of launch monitor was used to record his spin of 3200 rpms. You also did not say whether he was hitting range balls or actual top brand balls to get these launch monitor results. VERY few launch monitors can read backspin accurately. Only TrackMan and Flight Scope are reliable for that. Second, if he is hitting range balls to get this spin information, that means the spin is not typical of what he would get using the real balls he plays with.

      Changing a shaft just to change the spin is not a smart thing to do for a very good, high speed player. The only way a shaft change can reduce spin is when the shaft is either stiffer overall than the shaft the player is currently using, OR, when the tip section of the shaft is stiffer than the shaft the player is using. With no good empirical data on a wide variety of shafts, it is a guess as to whether any of the shafts you list are stiffer overall or stiffer in the tip section than what he has. Given the fact he is hitting a lot of fairways for how long he hits the ball, you would be taking a VERY big and VERY expensive risk to keep trying any of these other shafts. It would simply be a trial and error process.

      And for what gain. In truth, WAY TOO MUCH EMPHASIS is put on the spin measurements of a driver. Given the fact that so many people hit range balls on a non TrackMan or Flight Scope launch monitor, for most players, seeing a higher spin is unreliable information. What you have to do to determine if a player really has a spin problem is to watch the shape of the shot. Shots that fly with too much damaging spin tend to curve upward quite high and drop more straight down with much less roll after landing. In addition, any player who has a negative angle of attack with the driver automatically is going to see a little more spin on his shots. You cannot avoid that unless you either, 1) use less loft on the driver or, 2) take lessons to change the angle of attack from negative to at least level or slightly upward. And number 2 is VERY risky because any swing change could cause problems with the high percentage of fairways hit.

      So my recommendation is truly to leave things as they are. If you change shafts you just will not see very much difference at all, especially given the fact that your son has a slight negative angle of attack with his driver. 99% of all golfers would be very envious of being able to hit 10-12 fairways at 295-305 yards with their driver. Tell him to go practice putting because that is truly where the low scores are made.

      TOM

    • Dear Mr. Wishon,
      First of all, thank you so much for your time and prompt response. I collected the data from EBC at PGA National in west palm beach, where they had him hit 14 drives between 2 flags about 35 yards wide, and didn’t even charge us for anything. They use Trackman and Titleist ProV1X, which happens to be the same ball my son is currently using, for the data collection. We live in Texas and although the back spin may have resulted in some of the yardage loss, the ball still roll here in Texas. We competed in a tournament in FL and everything stopped on the land. During the week that we competed, his average drive was only 280-285. His iron shafts also ballooned as he’s gained 5″ in 1 year and SS went from 108-118 in 1 year, and we have not changed his shaft. He’s working really hard and I just want to make sure I get him the equipments that can perform according to his performance. We noticed a lot of purely striked shots fell straight out of the sky for 20 yards short during the tournament in FL and blew all the lead after a first round 67 at the Champion course. Again, thank you very much for your time. I really appreciate all the knowledge. Here are his equipment now;

      Driver: Titleist 915D3 with Fujikura Rombax Z 7z08
      3 Wood: Titleist 915F with Fujikura Pro Tour 83 X
      Iron (3-PW): 2014 Taylormade Tour Preferred MB with ProjectX 6.5 Flighted
      Wedge (50,54,58): Taylormade 2014 Tour Preferred with True Temper Spinner Wedge+

      The only 2 clubs that performed well for him were the fairway wood and the putter. He actually hit his 3 wood almost as long as his driver during the tournament.
      Thank you.

    • PATTARA

      Based on your additional information, I have to say that it sounds like your son needs to be working with a GOOD teacher to reduce that negative angle of attack into the ball. The fact that you say the shot shape is “ballooning” and falling short and falling straight down is indeed an indication of too much spin which is almost always coming from being too steep into the ball. If your son chooses to work with a teacher to change his angle of attack, you will have to expect that there will be some time in the process in which he does not play as well as he did. Ballooning shots, especially in the irons, are a swing issue and almost never an equipment matter. If it were me, since I know how hard it is to make a major swing change, what I would tell you son is to just begin to think about keeping his head behind the ball when the clubhead comes into impact. If there is no forward movement of the body and the head on the downswing, it is much more difficult for the club to come into the ball on a very negative angle of attack. Keeping the head well behind the ball coming into impact can help shallow out the angle of attack, and that is not a big swing change to do.

      Hope this helps,
      TOM

  3. Just found in my garage a couple of boxes of spanking brand new sets of irons club heads I never got around to using…Dynacraft Vari-Steel (1-SW), and Dynacraft Dyna-Torque Semi-Thru-Bore (2-SW). Packing slip says I bought from Dynacraft June 1993. I’ve saved enough money to buy shafts now and want to glue clubs up so I can use them.

    Can’t find trimming instructions that came with the order. The Dyna-Torque “bore thru” shorter hosel hole is about 3/8″ deeper than regular Vari-Steel hosel. Should I just trim 3/8″ less off tip of shafts for Dyna_Torque club heads than Vari-Steels using same shafts to get shafts performing about same? Please let me know how I should best tip trim the Dyna-Torques. Thank you!

    • CONNELL

      How about that, finding those sets untouched after all these years. I do remember the Vari Steel irons quite clearly but I am not nearly as coherent on the Dyna Torque iron design. It’s what comes after 31 yrs of designing heads and about 350 different design models during that time !! At any rate, the tip trim instructions for ANY iron model are always based on the distance from the bottom of the shafting bore, or rather where the shaft tip stops in the hosel, to the ground or flat surface upon which the head sits. A standard for bottom of bore to ground dimension to relate to normal tip trims for iron shafts is 1.5″. So if you can measure how far it is from where the shaft tip stops inside the hosel to the top of a table that you place the head on, that gives you the starting point. If it is 1.5″, then you trip trim as per normal for what the shaft maker says for standard tip trim for their shaft model. If it is less than 1.5″, then you SUBTRACT the difference from the BBTG to 1.5″ and take that off the normal tip trim for each iron number. If the BBTG is more than 1.5″, then you ADD that difference from 1.5″ to the tip trim for each iron number.

      Hope this helps,
      TOM

  4. Hi,
    I have a 959 driver that is the BEST and will never change! I want to know how similar the 919THI is? What are the design differences?
    The shaft in my driver is a Graphite design Reg shaft and has 16 gr tour lock weights in my grips and for me it made a huge improvement for me. The driver was built originally D 2. What does adding 16 gr to the butt do to the swing weight?

    • GUY
      The 959 was one of the driver heads I designed in the past to INTENTIONALLY be over the USGA limit for the COR of the face. I designed this for golfers who strictly played for fun and never to be used in any official competition. We did state this very clearly in the catalog and on our website presentations for this model. We do take the rules seriously but we also see that there are golfers who only wish to play for fun and not in any competition. So that was why I had designed the 959. However, in time, we began to get more than a few very negative emails that accused me of “harboring cheating in the game” by creating and offering such over the limit driver heads for sale. So when the hate emails got steady, I just pulled the plug on the model so the negatives would stop.

      The use of a counterweight in the grip end of any club will drop the swingweight at a rate of 1 swingweight point reduction for each 4 grams put into the very grip end of the club. But the more important effect of a cwt on performance tends to come from the effect on the club’s balance point being shifted more up away from the head and closer to the grip COMBINED WITH what the cwt does to increase the total weight of the club at the same time. It’s not really the single fact that the swingweight was lowered that accounts for the performance. It’s the combination of bal pt change + total weight increase and how that better fits your strength + your swing tempo + your swing rhythm.

      TOM

  5. I am 6ft 3 inches tall with average strength / medium swing speed and am looking at a second hand set of Sterling single length irons 36.5 inches Reg flex S2S blue shafts. Do you think these could suit me?

    • DON

      More than your height, your measurement of the distance from the wrist to the floor of your left hand (upper hand on the grip) is more of the indicator for when we would fit someone with a single length that would be greater than 36.5″. In general if the W to F measurement is 36″ or more, it would be better to move the golfer into a single length of 37″. If that W to F is over 38″, then it gets to the point the single length should be approaching 37.5″ for the golfer to be comfortable setting up over the ball with the irons. If you measure your own W to F, be very careful to do it this way so you get a proper, accurate measurement upon which iron length decisions can be made:

      Wear flat sole shoes like tennis shoes and stand on a hard surface floor like tile/concrete. Stand comfortably erect, shoulders perfectly level, arms hanging relaxed at the sides. Do not let your chin drop into your chest. Measurement is then from the major wrist crease at the base of the palm of the hand that is your upper hand on the grip. Usually best to have a 2nd person do the measurement so you can maintain this proper position.

      The Blue iron shaft is a VERY light weight shaft at only 55 grams. It is typically for golfers who are weaker physically and who would not do well with a heavier total weight for the irons. Golfers with a very smooth, rhythmic tempo who are a “swinger” and not a “hitter” in terms of swing tempo do better with the BLue 55 iron shaft. So at 6’3 if you are reasonably strong, if you have a somewhat aggressive move at the ball, then you probably would not want to be playing the Blue shaft in the irons.

      Hope this helps, and thanks for your interest,
      TOM

  6. Hi Tom, if I cut my driver shaft at the butt to make it play 43.5 inches, how will the flex be affected. It’s a taylormade m2 driver with a graphite design ad di 6 x shaft. The driver currently is 45 inches. Thanks,
    Mel

    • MEL:
      If you cut from 45 to 43.5″ AND IF YOU RESTORE THE SWINGWEIGHT TO WHAT IT WAS BEFORE THE CUT, then the effect on the shaft will be minimal to hardly noticeable. This is because the increase in stiffness that comes from cutting it shorter is then offset by the presence of more headweight to elicit a bending influence on the shaft during the swing. If you cannot or do not restore the swingweight after the cut, then the shaft will play a little stiffer but the main thing you would notice if you skipped the swingweight re adjustment would not be the shaft stiffness, but it would be a complete lack of head weight feel during the swing that most likely would cause you real problems with your tempo and timing and ability to hit the ball on center. So the bottom line is even if you have to slap 18 grams of lead tape all over the head to restore the swingweight, you better do it or else this change in length will be a disaster.
      TOM

    • Hello Tom.im looking at building a driver at 43.5..Can I use a three wood shaft because it plays that length when installed in driver..How will the flex and swing weight perform.and can I put a 5 wood shaft in my three wood to play at 42.5..

    • COLIN

      In a set of woods made with the same shaft model and flex, the shaft in the driver is installed with 0 tip trim, the shaft in the 3w is installed with 1″ tip trim and the shaft in the 5 wood is installed with 2″ cut from the tip before installation. Then for all woods, after installation the shaft is cut from the grip end to achieve the desired playing length for each wood. Whenever you cut the tip of the shaft, you are increasing its stiffness. The reason shafts are tip trimmed for the 3w and 5w and not for the driver is because the 3w head is usually 10 grams heavier than the driver and the 5w head is 20 grams heavier than the driver. The 3w and 5w heads have to be heavier so that at their shorter lengths, they can end up at the same swingweight as the driver and as each other. More headweight puts more of a bending force on a shaft. So the additional tip trim done on the shafts for a 3w and 5w is done to offset this increased bending effect from the heavier headweight so in the end, all shafts feel like they are at the same stiffness.

      If you put the 3w shaft into the driver and put the 5w shaft into the 3w, two things will happen that are not necessarily good for performance. One, you will have made the driver and 3w a half a flex stiffer than they were supposed to be for a standard installation of that shaft. If you have felt in the past that your driver and 3w with their original shafts felt and swung too flexible for your swing and sense of feel, then having them both be stiffer might not be a bad thing. But if you have felt that your driver and 3w with their original shafts did not feel too flexible, then putting the 3w shaft in the driver and 5w shaft in the 3w would make both clubs play too stiff for you and your swing.

      Two, your 3w and 5w shafts have already been cut from the grip end to establish the playing length for both of these woods. The 3w is usually a lot shorter in playing length than the driver. The 5w is usually an inch shorter than the playing length of the 3w. Now it is possible in putting the 3w shaft into the driver that it could end up being not that much shorter than what the driver should be or was because most all driver heads have a greater distance from the bottom of the shaft bore to the ground than to most all 3w heads. but no question that if you put the 5w shaft into the 3w, it will end up shorter than what the 3w was before.

      Now maybe your idea of doing all this is to end up with a shorter playing driver and 3w for control improvement. If so, then the way to go about having a shorter driver and 3w is to just leave the shafts in them and cut them both shorter in length from the grip end of the shaft. Then because the shortening of length will have lowered the swingweight by 3 swt points for each half inch cut shorter, if you add weight back to the heads to restore the swingweight to what it was before the cuts, that head weight increase to get back to the original swingweight will make the shafts play to the right stiffness after they are cut shorter.

      Hope this helps,
      TOM

    • Thanks Tom..I have my driver playing at 43.5 now and my 3 wood and hybrid perfect length.The reason I went to this length was to hit the middle of club all the time.and the switch has been a great help for my game.now I’m still having the odd drive that hits the toe or heel..So I experimented with lead tape in different locations on shaft.tried on driver and woods.when I put 50grams of lead tape just below bottom of grip on the shaft it felt great and everything about my swing improved.I can’t leave this tape on because it’s off-putting on the shaft.Is there any other way I can get club to play like this without tape on shaft. colin

    • COLIN
      There are specially made counterweights that are designed to lock into the grip end of the shaft. Here is a link to show you what I mean – https://www.golfworks.com/tour-lock-pro-weights/p/TL0001/?gclid=CI7Qz9jIl9ICFcW1wAodSw0IYw . This type of counterweight also has a special cutter tool available that fits into an electric hand drill to enable you to cut a proper size hole through the end of the grip so you can drop the weight into the end of the shaft and lock it in place. Or you can remove the grips, install the weight, and re install the grips over the top of the weight if you do not wish to cut a hole through the end of the grip.

      What is unknown is whether putting a 50g counter weight in the very end of the grip results in the same performance as having 50 grams of lead tape just below the end of the grip. There would be about 10-11″ difference between where the end of the counter weight lives in the end of the shaft vs the middle of the lead tape below the grip. Therefore I would recommend you do ONE club only with the 50g counterweight to see if that gives you the same results you have now, before you go do all the clubs.

      TOM

  7. I’m building a 21 degree 3 hybrid with an s2s shaft at 38.5 inches to go with a set of sterling single length irons at 37 inches. I’m trying to get a normal distance gap between the sterling 23 degree 5 iron and the 21 degree hybrid. How much of the shaft would you tip trim if building at the 38.5 inch length and adding 18 grams to the head.

    • Kourt
      The normal most widely seen length people make the 21* hybrid in our line is 39″. So for it being -1/2″ shorter, that really won’t cause the shaft to be much stiffer. A tiny bit that only a really experienced feel sensitive player could notice. So I would tip trim the S2S hybrid shaft the same amount as for normal length. Then just be sure to do a good job of fitting/choosing the right swingweight for the golfer based on his tempo/transition force and sense of feel for the headweight vs his swing tempo/timing.
      TOM

  8. Tom, Thank you for that explanation. I know some shaft trimming charts have one spec for glued hosels and a slightly different spec for adapter based hosels. I suppose a 1/4″ to 1/2″ off the tip vs off the butt shouldn’t make a considerable difference. Thanks again.

    Don

  9. I have a s2s white stiff flex shaft on the way that will be installed in a Cobra adapter (ZL head). I would like the final driver length to be 44.5″. I would also like the shaft to play as true to flex as possible. How would I go about trimming the shaft for the adapter with the final length and flex in mind.

    Thank you
    Don

    • DON
      I am sorry but the only way we could tell you how much to trim in total to achieve a 44.5″ length and to make the flex play as true as possible in this Cobra head is if we had the Cobra head so we could measure its hosel length and distance from the bottom of the adapter to the ground. within our company we do design our head models so that the “true flex” of each of our shafts is achieved with the normal tip trim instructions we provide in the catalog and on our website. But because there are no standards in the industry for hosel length and bore depth and bottom of bore to ground, each other company is free to design their heads with whatever specs for these dimensions that they see fit. In trying the best I can to help, based on what I have seen in analyzing some of the companies’ driver heads with adapters, I would say that if you did the normal 0 tip trim the flex would be on spec. As to the length of the club, what all clubmakers do is once they have done their tip trim (if any is required) they then DRY FIT THE SHAFT IN THE HOSEL/ADAPTER and then measure and mark on the butt of the shaft where the desired playing length requires the cut from the butt end of the shaft to be made. Then they pull the shaft out, cut from the butt where they marked, then epoxy and build the club.

      TOM

  10. Tom,

    Please confirm that the Future Pro Junior clubs are all just butt trimmed? What is your recommended length setup for juniors?

    • EDWIN
      Please send us an email at contact@wishongolf.com and request the tip trim instructions for the FUTURE PRO junior iron shafts. We have developed a trim chart that adjusts the tip trim based on the size and strength of the junior player involved. With this we also have a chart and information on what lengths we recommend per each different age group and size of juniors.

      TOM

  11. Under Trim Chart D there is a note that reads: add 1″ for S2S Green A flex. Please specify exactly what that means. Thanks.

    • JASON

      The S2S Green shafts are combination flex shafts, meaning the A and AA flexes come from the same master shaft. To get the stiffer of the two flexes in the shaft which is the A flex, you have to tip trim more than what is called for to get the AA flex from the shaft. Hence the trim chart is set up to ordain first the tip trims for the AA flex. The reference note then is offered to tell clubmakers to add 1″ to these tip trims to get the A flex from the combination S2S green shafts.

      TOM

  12. will be needing a driver shaft within the next 5 days with a
    > Titlelist 910 D3 adaptor and will need your assistance helping my son
    > into the desired wt/freq. of shaft. I will want the playing length of
    > shaft to be at 43.25 Son is 18, began playing golf at the age of 6,
    > plays to a 2 hcp. Has late release, covers the ball, hits hard, in
    > control medium tempo has a tendacy to hit down with irons and does the
    > same with the driver. Trackman 2013: Driver Attack angle was -3 to -4
    >
    > ——————————————————————————
    >
    > 5 iron Carry distance: 180 yards
    > Current drver shaft playing length 42.6
    >
    >
    > 2013 Trackman numbers:
    > Ballspeed 157.3
    > Launch Angle: 11.4
    > Clubheadspeed 107 mph
    > Spin rate was 2789
    >
    > Driver head playing Titlelist 910 D3 says 9.5
    > Ideal driver shaft freq: 257-260 grip on
    > Ball: Prov1x
    Recommended into the red s2s but did not consider cutting down
    Son like the feel of smooth transition that the Diamana Kali S+ series have

    • Edmund

      Sorry for the delay in responding. We had a few technical glitches with our website that caused the delay in responding. It is VERY difficult without seeing your son swing OR without being able to get his feedback, to know what shaft HE is going to like. Based on his swing and launch information you provided, ON PAPER the Kaili should be a shaft that is a little too flexible in the tip section. But since you say he likes that shaft, that makes it more difficult to predict what other shaft design he would like or dislike FROM A FEEL STANDPOINT. The S2S Red is a very unusual shaft design in that it departs from the traditional way that shafts are designed to increase in stiffness progression from the butt to the tip. But based on all of our testing with golfers who are good swingers with a late release, and considering that he likes the Kaili bend profile, I would think that the S2S Red R flex at this shorter length would be a contender for him. In the end, what really is always best for a good player is to find an experienced custom clubmaker who is knowledgeable in shaft fitting to work with him to determine what shaft HE likes.

      TOM

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