S2S Black 65 & 85 Wood Shafts

 

S2S Black 65 &  85 Graphite Shafts for Woods

TWGT’s Graphite Design for Better Golfers 

 

Features:

  • S2S Black Graphite Shafts are created with an improved, slightly stiffer tip bend profile design for golfers with Transition/Tempo/Release ratings from 2 to 3.
  • S2S Black 65 gram Wood Shafts are for golfers with more aggressive swing characteristics who have a Strength rating of 1.5 to 2, OR who may be stronger but simply prefer the lighter total weight feel from a 65g shaft weight.
  • S2S Black 85 gram wood shafts are for golfers with more aggressive swing characteristics who have a Strength rating of 2 to 2.5, OR who may be weaker but simply prefer the heavier total weight feel from an 85g shaft weight

S2S Shaft Trim Charts

 

  • Shaft Trimming Charts

 



Ratings and Reviews

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Rating: 4.4/5 (53 votes cast)

 

S2S Black 65 & 85 Wood Shafts, 4.4 out of 5 based on 53 ratings

38 Comments

  1. Hello Tom,

    I’m from Korea and I appreciate on all of your work.
    I learned a lot of things from your youtube and website.

    I’m surprised on this shaft spec because 65-R&S CPM of 36″ to 16″ is higher than 85-R&S. Is there any reasons for flexible mid section of heavier shaft?

    Yong

    • YONG

      Thank you very much for your post and your interest. We appreciate that very much. I am sorry but the bend profiles of the 65 and 85 gram versions of the Black shaft are supposed to be the same so it must be an unfortunate miss print of the bend profile specs in the catalog or website where you saw it. I will need to tell Diamond Golf to be sure to correct that for the coming year. Thanks very much for letting me know.

      TOM

  2. Hi Tom,
    Thank you for all you do for us mortals…I enjoy reading your posts and books. I have learned alot. I’ve had good luck with the Ping Tour shafts in drivers (both reg and stiff). Does your database show how these would compare to your Black…or is it more close to the white? Thanks again.

    • KEVIN

      Many thanks for your very kind words. Let’s just say I very much appreciate that you appreciate what I try to do to offer good, truthful information to help you enjoy this great game a little more. Thank you! The collection of OEM company proprietary shafts in the bend profile software data base is very limited because we are not permitted access to those shafts by any of the companies. Nor can the shaft makers who manufacture them send us samples to measure. The only OEM shafts we have in the data base come from clubmakers having submitted the shaft to us after they did a re shaft for a golfer and removed the shaft intact. So it is limited. Wish it were otherwise but the big companies just do not want to support our desire to offer bend profile data for making shaft to shaft comparisons. So I am sorry but I can’t answer your comparison question.

      TOM

  3. Tom,

    I am looking to build a 919 F/D 12 degree to replace my 3 wood. I primarily hit the 3 wood off the tee and would like to find a little more distance to replace the 3 wood and driver. The 3 wood I’m currently gaming has a Matrix Ozik HD 6.1 shaft. The characteristics of that shaft are it plays to 43″ it’s 64g, 4.0 torque, mid/high launch. I love the club so I want to build the F/D to be as close as possible to it. What shaft would you recommend? I will probably also build a 919 3 wood as the smaller head is more appealing to try and hit off the deck. Thank you for your time!

    Kevin

    • KEVIN

      The S2S Black 65 would have the most similar bend profile pattern to the HD 6.1. Both are not super stiff in the butt but are stiff in the tip based on the data I have in our bend profile software.

      TOM

  4. Performance wise on the 775 hs hybrids, if I’m looking for an 85 gram shaft to use in like a 3 hybrid, is it ok to use the s2s 85 Black wood shaft? The 100 gram hybrid version is a just a bit too heavy and the white hybrid I fear would be too soft.

    • COURT

      You can use any wood shaft with a 0.335 tip in any of my hybrid heads. The trick though is to figure out what tip trim to use. Wood shaft tip trims are designed with a wood length and wood head weight in mind. Hybrid lengths are much shorter (or at least the way I ordain hybrid lengths) and hybrid heads are a good bit heavier. So the shorter length of the hybrid makes the wood shaft play more stiff but the higher head weight of the hybrid goes the other way to make the shaft play more flexibly. My estimate would be if you use the Black wood shaft (either weight) in a #3 hybrid to be in the realm of 39″ long, you’d tip trim that shaft 3″ and take it from there to see how that feels.

      TOM

  5. Tom,
    Thank you very much for answering my questions in the past! I very much appreciate it, and there is no doubt that you are the Arnold Palmer of golf club designs in your capacity and graciousness to answer all these many questions posed to you.
    If an iron head, in this case, specifically wedges, has a hosel bore that only accepts taper tips, then it is easy enough to ream out the hosel to accept a .370 parallel tip. With taper tips, one pretty much gets what one gets in regards to the tip in relation to the first step, however, in a .370 parallel one is able to tip trim as much as necessary.
    So my first question is, is a .370 parallel shaft, tipped to the same distance from the first step as a .355 taper tip stiffer because the diameter is a tad larger, given the same weight? Or is the taper tip stiffer because of the conical shape of the tip vs cylindrical shape of the parallel, at the weight? It seems obvious to me that the parallel is a significantly more versatile tip than the taper.
    I understand that static weight and swing weight come into play here regarding tip trimming, however, for the purpose of this question, this isn’t my concern. I am looking for maximum shaft stability for the wedges, and for all my clubs.
    Additionally, I understand that the longer the beam, the easier it is for it to be deflected. Is there a particular type of shaft that is more stable, specifically tip stable, than another? Namely, a stepped steel shaft, vs, a step less steel shaft?
    I know that I might be asking hair splitting question, however, the faster and stronger the a swing, the more important these minor details become.
    Thank you in advanced for your response. Its much appreciated.
    Sincerely,
    Jarrod

    • JARROD

      Some parallel tip shafts are the same exact shaft as the taper tip version but just with the very tip end “swaged” down into the 0.355 taper. Some are not. The TTemper Dynamic for example is a different shaft in taper form vs parallel, but several other tapered shafts are simply the parallel version with the tip trim done and then the very tip end mechanically squeezed into the taper construction. You can usually tell by comparing the cut shaft wweight of the two shafts. By cut weight shaft I mean comparing the weight of the butt trimmed taper tip shaft with the weight of the tip and butt trimmed parallel tip shaft. If they are the same weight they are the same shaft. If the taper version is heavier, then they are a different shaft and the tip to first step dimension means nothing.

      In steel between all shafts of the same flex and bend profile, tip stability is kind of a BS term that is misleading. Where this term came from was unknowing golfers who tried a different shaft, found it to be more flexible when they released and hit through the shot, and did not know they were using a shaft with a softer tip stiffness profile. The other thing that confuses this is the simple fact there is no standard in the industry for any of the letter flexes. You can find S flex shafts which have the same stiffness design as an R from one other company or even an X from a third. So this too causes confusion because if the non technically educated golfer hits one shaft marked S and another marked S and feels a difference through release to impact, he thinks one is less stable than the other when in reality it is a difference in the flex or in the tip stiffness of the two shafts. One more thing that gets into this is the weight of the shaft and the resulting wall thickness of the shaft that comes as a result of the weight.

      In steel shafts you can find shafts as light as 75g up to 130 g. To make very light steel shafts be stiff enough, the shaft maker has to make the shaft with thinner walls from a higher strength steel alloy. This is the biggest reason such light steel shafts are more expensive than heavier weight steel shafts. A thin wall shaft made from a HS Steel alloy can feel different to a feel sensitive player just because the vibrations of impact are transmited up to the golfer along a shaft with a different construction.

      The most stable steel iron shafts are those with the stiffest flex and stiffest tip section. Period. But if at the end of the day the shaft feels too stiff, the only recourse is to go with a softer flex with a tip stiff design.

      TOM

  6. Hello Tom,

    I am considering a S2S Black 65 in a 919FD, or THI.

    I tried my friends Ping G15 today with a Aldila Serrano 60S and it was nice to swing, and I hit it well. I appreciate that I am asking you to compare a rival company, and I apologize, but do you know if the S2S Black 65 would be a close match to the Serrano? I have a fast aggressive swing, and want a Wishon shaft. I don’t have any other data to help you apart from that the Serrano suited me.

    Thank you in advance.

    Steve

    • Steve:

      Answer sent by direct email so I could include the Bend Profile graph and data for both shafts you ask about.
      TOM

  7. Hey Tom I have an Auditor Frequency machine but I am missing a Frequency Chart. I was trying to find one but I am a bit concerned about the accuracy and consistency of the charts out there. I tried to Google different charts but there are differences I have found. What frequency chart do you use?

    Thanks

    • CHRIS

      I don’t use any type of frequency chart with any of the Auditor machines that I have or have had in my career. It’s very well known that there are no standards for anything related to shaft flex or bend profile in the equipment industry. So there is no standard for whatever frequency is said to be an average R or S or any of the letter flexes. Any of the charts that list some frequency as an average for each letter flex are just guesses or opinions anyway. What is far more important for referencing shaft flex to a golfer is to have an accurate list of what are the swing speed ratings for shafts based on a proper analysis of the shafts’ full length stiffness measurements. We had something like this inside the Shaft Bend Profile Software but right now that program is unavailable as I work on the future of that in a new version to come out sometime in 2018, I sure hope. Since that is not around right now, if you want to find one of the older frequency charts for now, you can go to the website of the AGCP (Association of Golf Clubfitting Professionals – Google it to find it) and send them an email, tell them what you are looking for and they’ll dig one up for you that they’re ok with using.

      TOM

  8. Hitting oban 75 gram 44″
    Dd Callaway, swing speed
    104-106, just bought epic head interested in 45.5 85 gram regular shaft.
    Im.74 6′ weigh 234.
    Old baseball tennis player & I understand elliptical pop, balance. Playing competitive carry 5.3 usga at sonterra in San Antonio. What you got, what do you think Sgeri@debsinsurance.com

    • Stephen

      What I have and what I think is that you should take the time to drive to Kerrville to be custom fit by Keith Chatham of Precision Fit Golf. Keith is without a doubt one of the 5 best clubfitters in the whole world, and I am not exaggerating when I say that. I’ve known him in this side of the golf business since the early 90s as I was the guy who got him started in his studies and training in the field. From there he has gone on to truly be one of the best there is. There is absolutely no question in my mind that if you took the time to drive the 50 miles or so from SA to Kerrville to work with him, you would walk away with the absolute best fit and best performing clubs you could ever hope to find for your game. His phone is 830-257-1234 and his email is pfg@omniglobal.net. And you can read and see a little about him and his work at http://www.precisionfit.com . Proper fitting has to be done in person because it involves an in depth analysis of you and your swing characteristics. I hope you can find the time to get up to Kerrville.

      Thanks very much for your interest,
      TOM

  9. Tom,

    I recently installed S2S White (stiff) hybrid shafts in my 775HS’s and they feel/perform great.

    I put an S2S White (stiff) 65g wood shaft in my driver and it feels a little “wobbly” at impact, for lack of a better term (i.e., it feels like I’m overpowering the shaft).

    I’m going to try the S2S Black 65g wood shaft next, but am undecided as to whether I should go with a regular or stiff. My swing speed with a driver is about 95 mph, with a generally smooth transition.

    Your thoughts?

    Ray

    • RAY

      What you are experiencing in the feel difference between the White wood and White hybrid shafts is due to the actual bending design difference between these two different shafts combined with the effect of the much greater length on the driver vs hybrid and how that tracks into your personal sense of bending feel of the shaft during the swing. Wood shafts, hybrid shafts and iron shafts are completely different animals in terms of how much they actually bend during a swing. When I design a family of shafts like the White in which there is a wood, a hybrid and an iron shaft, I tend to follow stiffness specs for each part of the shaft that allow the three shafts to “relate to each other” in terms of the bend profile. In this case, I wanted the White shafts to be a medium tip stiffness profile with butt to center stiffness that corresponded to data I have developed over the years for what I feel constitutes specific swing speed ranges for each letter flex. It’s tough to explain this in words without charts and graphs.

      Affecting this also is the fact that we as golfers can often times develop swing characteristics that cause us to swing our driver/woods/hybrids/irons with a different manner of bending force applied to the different lengths the shafts are in the different clubs. Couple that with the fact we golfers can have a very wide range of how we feel and react to the bending of the shaft and it is very common for a golfer to like a particular shaft in the irons but not the same model in the woods or hybrids, or vice versa. In fact it is somewhat rare to find a golfer who plays the same brand and model and flex of shaft in his driver, woods, hybrids and irons because of these differences.

      The term “wobbly” when used to describe shaft feel tends to mean the shaft is too flexible. In that sense, yes, it can be wise for you to try the Black because it is most certainly stiffer in the tip section than the White. With a generally smooth transition move and 95mph driver speed, I would say Black 65 in S flex and that most certainly should get rid of a wobbly feel in the driver. Shaft weight tends to correspond to tempo and strength – the more forceful the transition move, faster the tempo, the heavier the shaft OR swingweight can be. You could try the Black 65-S or you could tip an additional 1″ to 1.5″ from the White S wood shaft. You could do that add’l tipping first with the White shaft you have and just epoxy an extender into the butt to bring the length back to where you want it after the additional tip trim and re installation. That would be less expensive as a starting point than to go out and buy a whole new shaft. And if after the tipping, extending of the White S you find that is not right, then you always can go to the Black 65 S.

      TOM

    • Tom,

      I tried the S2S Black 65-S shaft and it works perfect. Best driver shaft I’ve ever used. Lowest handicap ever this year (2.4).

      Kudos!

    • RAY

      Very glad to hear that ! I designed the Black 85 to be our “good player’s” shaft with it’s firm tip section design and a butt stiffness that is not too stiff for each flex. Best wishes in this great game and may the driver keep putting smiles on your face !! Thanks so much for letting me know !!

      TOM

  10. Tom I thought it time for an update on the Black 85 gram X shaft. I started first with the 85 gram x flex tipped about an inch( for a young guy with hopes of the Nationwide Tour ) in the 919 Fairway driver 14 degrees and that worked out extremely well. So I first had the Graphite Design BB X flex 75 gram version, but he wanted to try the 85 gram X Flex that you had and so we put the 85 gram x flex not tipped into the M 1 driver 440 cc and installed it with the spine at 12 O’clock position. This was a superb choice ( so I am setting with an extra Graphite Design BB X stiff( it launched at 14.5 degrees with a spin rate of 2100 swing speed stayed or may have went down to 121, but here is the interesting stat ball speed went up to near 185 from to a plus 190 and the dispersion went down and the carry from 305 to nearly 315 yards with overall distance 330 to 340 yards. Oh how I could wish for that, but the two things he had to say was he finally felt he could swing the club and not be afraid he was going to have a two way miss. He talked about how tight the shots were and I piped in you mean the dispersion and he said the ball flight it isn’t ballooning. I first started him at just shy of 45 inches for a finished length and against my better judgement he talked me into just shy of 46 inches and when I swing weighted this monster I said what I am I doing. D-7, but he was at this local driving range and the end of the range with range balls is 310 yards and he was air mailing a good share of them. So I was wrong he can handle the extra length and weight and it smoothed out his transition. So he wants one of the 919 hand picked and selected with this shaft. So Tom do you take trades for Graphite Design shafts? (LOL) Thanks for the extra shaft just kidding, but what a joy to see his confidence and how he trusts his swing. He also has the Sterling set 6- gap wedge with X-100 shafts. Once again Thanks Tom

    • ROGER

      My pleasure and I am happy to hear that the fitting work has been successful !! So many times these things take some time to cover all the bases, but it sounds like this was done very well from the results ! And no, I kind of have a real aversion to these high dollar shafts in the industry these days so I am the wrong guy to ask about a trade in for a high dollar shaft ! But Ebay can be your very best friend when it comes to that !!

      TOM ;>)

  11. Can one demo/get fitted for a s2s black or red shaft in a 2016 taylormade m2 head?

    • Kevin

      All of my graphite shaft designs for woods are made with a 0.335″ parallel tip diameter. I don’t pay any attention to any other companies’ clubs so I cannot tell you what the tip diameter of the shafts that Taylor Made uses for its M2 series of drivers. Some companies stay with the 0.335″ standard while others opt for a 0.350″ tip diameter on their stock shafts to make it more difficult to change the shaft and get rid of the marketing of their standard shafts in their clubs. Your best bet would be to contact a clubmaker who does club repair and re shafting work to ask as I am sure most clubmakers would have done some re shaft work on an M2 driver for other golfers. Hope this helps,
      TOM

    • Hi Tom,
      Which of your driver/wood shafts is the most similar to the aldila nv 65 regular flex?
      Thanks

    • Kevin, the Black 65-R would be very similar in bend profile to the NV 65 R. Both have the same butt stiffness and the same tip stiffness and they weigh the same. Only tiny little difference is that the center section of the NV is a tiny bit stiffer than the center section of the Black 65 R. But it should not be enough to make any difference.

      TOM

    • If the NV 65 R flex feels smooth, do you think your Black 65-S would be OK or may feel “boardy”?

    • For any shaft to feel “boardy” compared to another shaft, it has to have a stiffer butt section, a stiffer tip section, or both together in comparison to the other shaft. Rarely would you find a shaft to feel boardy if it is the same butt and same tip stiffness but stiffer in the center section of the shaft. This is because the butt stiffness comes into play when we start the downswing and the tip stiffness reacts to when the golfer releases the wrist hinge angle on the downswing. There is no one specific swing motion that corresponds to the center section of the shaft as it blends more with the butt stiffness in its effect on shaft bending during the swing.
      TOM

  12. Hi Tom,
    Been reading about your sterlings for the last couple months and I am going to take the plunge. Have a fitting set up with Jeff at Accufit Golf in Colorado Springs. Already hit his demos and all I can say is WOW. I love them. Anyways, my current irons have SteelFiber i95 in reg which I love. Which one of your shafts would most match??? Thanks.

    • Kevin

      Good to hear that you like the test sessions with the Sterling irons and are going in to be fit for a set. Our S2S Black 85 would be the closest shaft we have to the bend profile design of the SteelFiber iron shafts because they also are designed with a firm tip section. However, the i95 is 10 grams heavier than the Black 85. While that is not a lot in terms of the final effect on the total weight of the irons, it is a difference in total weight that some very feel sensitive players would note.

  13. Just got done fitting a customer into a Black 85 X Stiff with his driver. Previously he could not get a good drive with any of the other shafts we tried. Now, he has increased distance by at least 30-yards and they are dead straight. He has a very forceful transition and is more of a hitter than a swinger, so this worked a bit better for him than the Red shaft. He could not be happier with the added 20 grams of weight and with only a 85-90 mph swing speed never even considered the X Stiff shaft. Always a pleasure when we can fit our customers and see such a simple change make such a huge difference! Thanks Tom for the great and affordable shaft designs!

  14. Hi Tom:

    Hoping you can provide a recommendation. Collin Callahan fit me with the S2S 65g Black shafts in a 7, 4, and 2 wood. I use the S2S 85g black shafts in my irons. The iron have been excellent btw…I need to see Collin regarding the 4 iron as I am having trouble finding the sweet spot.

    My PGA professional is Matthew Lodwick at Inverness in Denver and I have now had two sessions with him. Per his advice, I have reverted back to my old KZG 3 wood shafted with w Fujikura Motore F3 80g shaft. Unlike the S2s, the Fujikura launches the ball high – not too high – using my normal swing. I am constantly fighting with the S2s 65g’s unable to get them in the air – not without significant modification to my swing, which Matt views as unwise.

    I am going to revisit the situation with Collin, but wondering if you have any advice on a higher launching shaft in the Wishon line-up that would be help me produce better results?

    I realize it is difficult to analyze without seeing me in person, but I hope this information proves useful.

    Thanks,

    George

    • GEORGE:

      It is customary in the custom clubfitting business that when the clubs are not quite right or not quite to the golfer’s final satisfaction, the golfer should go back to talk to the clubfitter to explain the matter so the clubfitter can adjust, change or tweak the clubs to get them so the golfer is happy with the final work. Talk to Colin, show him what you are talking about with the shot height difference between the clubs, and he should be able to work with you to get you into perhaps a softer tip shaft for your swing to help get the ball up a little more. Of our shafts, you may want to ask him to let you try one of the S2S WHITE graphite shafts as it is designed with a softer tip section than the Black.

      TOM

  15. I recently went to club-builder Bill Weitzel for a wood-shaft fitting. After a few hours on his launch monitor, we discarded all the very costly shafts I brought with me to analyze; the dispersion of the best of the lot being about 20 yards. After trying a few shafts Bill suggested, the shaft I ended up with was the Wishon S2S Black 85. Longer than any of my shafts and my dispersion on a half dozen 295+ yard drives with the S2S was 3.5 yards! Thank you Tom Wishon! Thank you Bill!

  16. Over the last year I have replaced the stock shaft in my Taylormade R1 driver with an Aerotech Claymore and then an Aerotech Steelfiber. About two weeks ago I installed an S2S Black shaft in the club. In the past I hit the driver well but was never really positive where the club would be at impact. With the Black shaft those fears are gone and I can now swing freely with true confidence that the clubhead will be there at impact. I am hitting an average of two additional fairways per round but more importantly my distance has increased by an average of more than ten yards when in the fairway. Love the feel of the Black shaft in my driver as well as my fairway woods. It is so much fun to see your golf buddies wonder what happened when all of a sudden you are out driving them or putting the ball up near the green on long par 5s without fear. Thank you Tom.

    • Gary
      That’s great to hear that you like the performance of the S2S Black shafts in your driver. Most people tend to think of us first as a clubhead design company but we really feel that our shaft R&D capability is as good as there is – heavily so because from all of our fitting research we really do understand how the different moves of the golf swing relate to and affect shaft stiffness design and performance. We’ve really worked hard to understand all of this and then we have that information to use when we design our shafts. In the end, we feel it works very well and so we are very pleased to hear it has made a visible difference for you!!

      Thanks again!
      TOM

    • We’re you fitted for the s2s black shaft?

  17. Het S2S shaft systeem van Wishon is uniek en zeer doordacht. Het systeem is zo opgezet dat er voor elke golfer een passende shaft beschikbaar is welke past bij de individuele eigenschappen van elke golfer. Verder maakt het eenvoudige selectie systeem op de Wishon website het mogelijk om de juiste shaft voor alle clubs in de tas te vinden.

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