S2S Black 85 Iron Shafts


S2S Black 85 Graphite Iron Shafts

Wishon Golf’s Heavier Weight 85g Graphite Iron Shaft Design with Softer Bend Profile for the R Flex but Stronger Bend Profile for the S Flex


  • S2S Black Graphite Shafts are created with an improved, slightly stiffer tip bend profile design for golfers with Transition/Tempo/Release ratings from 2 to 3.
  • S2S Black 85 Iron Shafts are designed for golfers with more aggressive swing characteristics who have a Strength rating of 1.5 to 2, OR who may be stronger but simply prefer the lighter total weight feel from an 85g shaft versus a conventional steel iron shaft.

S2S Shaft Trim Charts


  • Shaft Trimming Charts


Ratings and Reviews

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Rating: 4.0/5 (26 votes cast)


S2S Black 85 Iron Shafts, 4.0 out of 5 based on 26 ratings


  1. Great point. Lofts do tend to all over the place. The irons were bent 2 degrees stronger by my club fitter to be more in line with the irons they replaced.

  2. Have had a set of 771 irons with the Black 85 shafts (reg flex) for a little over a year. Was fitted and clubs were moi matched. The fitting process was great and the irons are superb. Very consistent center strikes and straight. Issue is I am 1-1.5 club shorter with a very high ball flight than any other irons I’ve played. Any suggestions on changes to try? Shaft too soft? Too light? Swingweight has been measured at C8. I went to a lighter grip to to get to D0. I know that is a static measurement but willing to try anything.

  3. Just looking for some general advice. I was fitted with a set of 771 irons, black 85 regular shafts over a year ago. The fitting process was great and the irons are the best I’ve ever hit. My question is that I hit every club in the bag 1 to 1.5 club shorter (and much higher) than any other set I’ve played with. Any advice on what the issue may be? Shaft too light/flexible? Clubs were moi matched and I have consistent center strike, straight shots.

    • TIM

      thanks very much for taking your time to stop in and ask for some answers. The answer comes from the recent trend among the big companies in the golf equipment industry to start lowering the loft angles on all their irons in their on going desire to keep selling irons that hit the ball longer. Using the 5 iron as an example of what I am talking about, back when the 771CSI irons were designed, the average loft of a 5 iron in a set was 26*, just what the spec for the loft is on the 771 #5 iron.

      Today most companies’ game improvement irons are designed so the loft on the 5 iron can be anywhere from 24* down to as low as 21.5*. So that is what you are up against. pretty much any iron model designed within the last year now has lofts that are a good notch lower per iron than what you have on the 771’s. It’s really too bad that the companies choose to do this because most golfers have no idea what the loft angles are on their irons. So when they go out to hit something new with substantially lower lofts, they can very easily think that either, 1) something is wrong with my present irons, or 2) this new model really must be a great design.

      In essence their 6 iron has the same loft as your present 5 iron. It’s really not much more than engraving a higher number on what was a lower number head. Why do they do this? Unfortunately it is simply to sell more sets because they all know distance is like a drug to many golfers. Allow a golfer to hit an 8 iron into a green where before he had to hit a 7 iron and he’ll likely want the set. Despite the fact the loft on the new 8 iron is the same as the loft on his old 7 iron.

      You can have your clubmaker bend the lofts lower by 2 to 3* on each iron if you want to hit each head number longer than you do now. The hosels of the 771 are designed to allow that if desired. Thanks very much for your support and the very best to you in this great game,


  4. Hi Tom my name is Mike Reay I’m currently getting my clubs built by powergolf in St Catharines Ontario the owner’s name is Brian I’m not quite sure if you know him but if you do just wondering if I’m in good hands or should I look elsewhere thank you very much

    • MIKE

      You’d be talking about Brian Morrissey and yes, for sure, Brian is a VERY GOOD clubfitter. I’ve known him in this business for a good long time and I know from many back and forths on technical discussions about fitting and golf club performance that he is very good. You’ll be in good, capable hands in working with Brian for your fitting needs. And do have fun and ask all the questions that come into your mind because he really is knowledgeable and will make your fitting experience to be very enjoyable and educational.


  5. Currently have Recoil 95 F4 in my Ping I irons. Not too happy with the feel (a little harsh and stiff) plus a loss in overall distance. Swing speed with 5 iron is 80 mph. Am scheduled for a fitting to change shafts but wanted your opinion or recommendation.

    • TIM
      Please excuse me but it is very difficult to pinpoint a shaft flex problem for a player by email. Shaft flex fitting really requires seeing the player’s swing characteristics that have an effect on bending of the shaft, as well as to be able to assess other shafts of different design to determine what shaft characteristics are good and less good, preferred and not wanted, by the golfer. I do not have full bend profile measurement data on the Recoils since UST changed their minds and refused to support our bend profile data base anymore. So I do not have as much clear empirical data as would be necessary to help. But for sure Recoil is a tip stiff design and it sounds like either they make their F4 stiffer than most S flex shafts out there, or perhaps the swingweight of your irons is too low for your swing so it is adding to the stiff and boardy feel of the Recoils. In all such cases, it is always wise to just change ONE of the irons first and hit it for at least 3-4 ball striking sessions to get a better sense of feel for it in comparison to the Recoils – don’t jump into the whole set of re shafts until you get enough chance to know that the shaft of choice is right for you. Since you posted on the S2S Black 85 shaft page, I can tell you that for an 80mph speed player, as long as your downswing tempo is not super slow and smooth with the 80mph, the Black 85 in S should not be too stiff. I’m personally 78mph with a 38″ 5-iron with a medium aggressive downswing move and a semi late release and the shaft is not too stiff feeling for my preference of feel – and I can detect too stiff shafts pretty quickly from my experience.


    • Hey Tom I appreciate your advice. I know by email it’s kinds like looking for a needle in a haystack. I think I’m in good hands with CJ at Golf Maestro. I’m sure I’ll find a Wishon shaft that fits the bill. Will let you know my success story. Thanks again!

    • TIM
      I am glad you posted so I could echo the comment about CJ being a REALLY good clubmaker to work with for your fitting needs. He used to be out in our neck of the woods here in Colorado some years back before he moved to NC to set up shop at Golf Maestro. He’s a good man, he knows his stuff and you will walk away with a good experience and a good fit in the clubs!

      Thanks much for your interest and your support and the very best to you in this great game. Do be sure to say HI to CJ for me if you would,

    • Hey Tom,
      Had the pleasure working with CJ today to work out my Recoil issue. Found out the Recoils were extremely stiff and the head weights were all over the place. It’s a miracle I could even hit a golf ball. CJ was absolute great in the process. It was amazing the extremes he went to in getting me comfortable behind the ball. I’ve gone thru a lot of fitting sessions (so called!) but nothing like today. The best part of it all was that once I hit the 771 irons my Pings were second rate at best. I don’t believe I have ever hit an iron so smooth and responsive. So, I’m now the proud owner of a new set of correctly fit 711s with the S2S Black graphite shafts (as soon as CJ builds them!). Thanks for being the best in your craft and working to make the game enjoyable. Merry Christmas to me early!

    • TIM

      Wow, how nice is that to hear that you really were able to find out what a big difference it can be to be custom fit by a professional in the field like CJ is. I’m glad you took the time to find him and that you were able to work with him for your fitting needs. There are only about 200 to maybe 250 clubmakers on a par with CJ in the world, guys who really have studied the craft and have the experience to know how to keep working to nail down the proper specs for golfers so they can walk away with the best fit and with clubs that will allow them to play to the best of their ability.

      Thanks for sharing this with us and the very best to you in this great game !!

  6. Tom,

    I have a player with a 5-iron speed of 95 mph and Transition-Tempo-Release-Strength of 3-3-3-3. Your Shaft Fitting Program indicates a S2S Red S shaft for his irons. Unfortunately, the S2S Red Iron shafts are no longer available. As a replacement to the S2S Red S Iron, I am leaning toward the S2S Black 85 S Iron tipped an additional 1 inch. What say you? And when with the Shaft Fitting program be updated to remove the S2S Red Iron shafts?


    RJ the Clubmaker

    • RONNIE

      Yes, it is too bad when we have to drop a product that could key into a segment of golfers pretty well. But every single one of these decisions is made on the basis of how well does it sell. If few buy it, we can’t keep it. I think perhaps a good number of people were scared off by the Red shaft, thinking it was WAY too stiff. It’s too bad because it was a good fit for the aggressive very late release player. Bit going with an inch extra tip trim on the Black would be fine if the player is up to but not over 90mph with the 5 iron speed. if he is VERY aggressive and very late, then 1.5″ to even 2″ tip trim would be advised. And work hard to get the swingweight right for the player’s sense of feel because the Black is an 85 gram shaft. If the player is VERY aggressive, he’s going to probably do better with a heavier feel to help control his tempo consustency.


  7. Hi Tom,
    Like another gentleman with questions, I too am an ex-Golfsmith customer and have built numerous sets of irons and woods over the years, and have had much success. I purchased a loft/lie and swing weight machine years ago, because I play left handed and got tired of the rack selection in all the golf shops. I would like to have future access to things such as shafts and grips, since you do not appear to have a wide selection of lefty designs. What would I need to do to accomplish this?

    Thanks in advance,
    Chuck Crookshanks

    • CHUCK
      On behalf of the whole clubmaking industry, let me apologize for the lack of left hand models available. It’s a tough thing to have to accept because in all my years of designing clubheads, never once have I seen a left hand model sell more than 8% of the units it will in the RH version. So that means before a smaller company can bring out a LH version of a model, that RH version has to do some decent unit sales so when the 8% statistic kicks in, the numbers can be enough to justify the cost of the tooling dies and inventory production of the LH heads. As such, you will never see anywhere near the number of models available in LH that you do in Right. To apply for an account with us, click on the ACCOUNT APPLICATION link at the very top of the home page. Fill our the application, include as much info on your experience and we’ll be glad to work with you if you have reasonable experience in the field.

      Thanks very much

  8. How do your Black Iron shafts compare to UST Recoil 780 or Recoil 95 shafts that I have experience with? I am very satisfied with the recoils, but they are not offered by the builder who is making a set of Sterling SL Irons for me.

    • DAVID

      The UST Recoil shafts are a better player’s shaft in that they are designed with a firm tip section in the profile. Better player’s shafts always are made that way because better players have a later to very late release and that type of release puts more bending action on the tip section in the last part of the downswing before impact. Hence the firm tip for later release players is there to prevent the shot from ballooning too high and to keep the shaft bending feel before impact from feeling too soft. Our S2S Black 85 graphite iron shaft is a firm tip section design, definitely intended for better players. It is an 85 gram shaft so in comparison to the Recoil 95 it would be about 10g lighter when installed – which isn’t a big amount. If you were to prefer a little higher swingweight in your irons, such as in the D3,D4 range, that much head weight feel tends to always cover up a shaft weight difference of 10g or less.

      Hope this helps,

    • Thanks Tom. That makes complete sense. And, in fact, I prefer D3 to D4 swingweight.

    • Thanks and happy to help. In fact, I just got back to my computer from the back where I bent your lies to the 3 flat spec you requested. Also double checked the lofts to be right on.

      Thanks very much,

  9. I’m about to build a single length Sterling set. My 5 iron swing speed is 83 and I have a late release. I’m 66 years old and want the benefit of shock absorption of graphite. Will the Black 85S be a good fit with the single length?

    I now play KBS Tour 90 in the 550C and have lost a little distance with them this year. Hit the 8 iron about 158 carry down from 162. A concern is that the Black will allow a much higher trajectory and possible further loss in distance with the single length especially in the 5 and 6 irons.

    Conversely it would seem that I might get too much distance in the shorter irons due to their new length. I know the Sterling irons can be bent but with bending don’t you also affect bounce? If I take 2 degrees off the 9,pw,sw how will this affect the bounce angle?

    I know we’re all in somewhat new territory but I’m hoping that you will have had enough feedback to give me some guidance.

    Thanks Tom

    Mike Miles

    • MIKE:

      First off, thanks for your interest. Lots to talk about here to help you so bear with me as I explain.

      If the firm tip design of the KBS Tour 90 has been a good match for your swing, then yes, among the graphite shafts we offer, the Black 85 would be the best choice since it is a firm tip profile aimed at players with a later to late release. I’m 65 myself so as a fellow senior who is as well seeing a little decay of the clubhead speed, I can tell you that the drop down in one flex would be advisable given what you say about losing distance with the same set you’ve been used to. Also the drop in shaft weight to the graphite will help a tiny bit. Only thing I ask you to analyze further is whether you still have a later to late release at 66 as to whether you are or are not beginning to release the club a little earlier than you did. I say this because I have seen this in other players as they age in the game, and in fact that very thing is happening to me as well. I now have moved to a medium tip stiffness in the graphite in my irons where for all my younger years I had a late release so I always used a firm tip profile. If you feel you are releasing the club a bit earlier in your swing evolution, then the S2S White in R could be the choice to go with next.

      Distance wise, please let me cover that as clearly as I can. I don’t know what your present iron lengths are in your conventional lengths set. And from that, I am not sure what length your wedges are in that set. Wedge lengths are all over the planet from company to company. But when I have looked at company iron/wedge length specs over the past year or so, I don;t see hardly any companies whose wedges are shorter than 35.5″ in their standard length sets. With the primary length of our Sterling single length being 36.5″ as opposed to previous single length companies making their 1 length irons at 37.5″ usually, I can tell you from testing we did for months that the 1″ difference in our single length vs other conventional wedges is not that much at all. If it were 37.5″ then yes, that much length increase in a single length set would jump the wedges for most players.

      The other thing is that over the past 30 yrs, iron lofts have steadily decreased a lot. During this time, the average loft of a 5 iron in the industry has gone from 32* to 25* with some companies today making sets in which the 5 iron is even lower in loft than 25*. With that, every other iron has also decreased in loft. 30 yrs ago the average PW had a loft of 52*. Today that is more like 45-46* and again, some are even lower than that.

      My point is that over the past 30 yrs as you played golf and probably bought a number of new sets of irons, you have had to get used to hitting the ball longer with most of your irons, including the 6, 7, 8, 9, PW. You now probably have a gap wedge where 20-30 yrs ago that club never existed. As such when you have bought new iron sets, you probably have had some time during which you had to get used to the new distances for each iron number and probably the PW and gap wedge too. But you did that. You did accommodate that with use and practice and I am sure it was no big deal. Any of us who are 50-80 yrs old who have played since we were kids or 20-something have had to do the same thing. But we did it, and it was not a big deal.

      As such it is no different in moving into a single length set. If you note that you hit each number iron a little bit different distance, including a little longer, than the same number iron in your previous set, you note that and you either learn how to play with that increased distance or you bend lofts to re adjust a little if you find after a few months that the new distances are more than you can get used to.

      From what we have heard from MANY golfers and clubmakers who have fit and bought the Sterling single length sets since we began to release them in the end of March, no one is complaining about distance. Most do say they hit the ball gradually a little longer AS THE NUMBER DECREASES in the set. So most get pretty close to the same distance with the Sterling Gap Wedge as their gap wedge, some do say the GW in the Sterling is a little longer. But we haven’t had complaints. And then the PW hits the ball ever so slightly longer than most say they hit their old PW. The 9 iron is slightly longer than their old 9 iron – and so on with a little bit more distance in the Sterlings up to the 6 and 5 irons.

      But no one has said they felt this to be too different to get used to. In fact most have not said anything about distance other than “I hit these about the same to a little longer than my old irons.” In other words, it hasn’t been an issue. But if it were, lofts can be adjusted. I would not suggest doing that until you play with the irons several to many times to really note where you are with each iron, distance wise.

      Hope this helps,

  10. Tom,

    I am using using the 775HS 3 and 4hybrids with UST Recoil 808 F4 iron shafts. Love this combination. I would like to add a 2 hybrid but thinking of using your S2S shaft. Could you make a recommendation as to which shaft would have the same characteristics?


    • Steven:

      Seriously, if you hit the combination of the 775 hybrid heads + REcoil shafts very well, there is absolutely no reason to deviate from this combination. None. To do so asks for “trouble” because you would be introducing another variable to this process of trying to find your best playing and feeling clubs.

  11. Tom do you sell the S2S graphite to club makers not affiliated with you. I have played your Snake Eyes Fire Forged (maroon logo) irons for years but could never find another set as a backup. Then someone told me you opened your own shop. I have a set of the Wishon 752TC heads (still looking for the fire forged) and want to play them myself. I am searching for a 85 to 95 gram stiff shaft for the heads. If you will sell the S2S Black 85 graphite shafts what will the price be. I appreciate your time.


    • Kelly
      My apology for the delay in responding. Somehow the website quit sending me notifications of posts so I did not catch that glitch until today. Sure we can work with you, if you would send us an email at contact@wishongolf.com and we will be glad to let you know the pricing and all information for setting up an account.

      Thanks very much,

  12. i’ve been messing around with different clubs, steel shaft and iron shaft, etc. trying to find a set which really felt good to swing, where consistent, and, which provided decent distance. Tried weighting, different grips and more. Was slowly clossing in on it. Think I may finally be almost there. I bought a Black S2S 85 Graphite Iron shaft based on an experience with a manufacturers heavy graphite hybrids. I put in on a Ping I5 5 iron (graphite) and hit it today. It felt like a natural extension of my body. All shots were in the 170-180 yard range and grouped within 10 yards of each other. Not bad for a 75 year old. I love it and am changing the entire set to over to this shaft. I’ll be trying my hybrids next.

    • Brett:

      Thanks so much for taking your time to share your experience with your search for the right shaft and fitting specs for your swing, That’s really nice to hear that you noticed enough of a difference when you installed the S2S Black 85 iron shaft to see a visible improvement in your shotmaking. FYI I changed over to this Black 85 shaft in my own personal iron set (560MC forged, the best game improvement forging in the game today !! [HA!]) One word about our hybrid shaft designs. I designed all our hybrid shaft designs with a 0.335 tip and from it, design all of our hybrid head models with a 0.335 bore diameter to match that because I just found in my shaft prototyping research that it was far more possible to make the hybrid shafts perform well when designing them with the smaller tip diam. So if you were thinking of one of our hybrid shafts for use in a hybrid of some other company’s design, you do need to check the hosel bore diam of that hybrid head so you could know if it is or is not made with a 0,335″ bore to match the tip diam of our hybrid shafts.


  13. How do these compare in stiff to a project x graphite iron 6.0? I know the torque is the same and the weight of these is less..

    • MRS

      The Project X graphite 6.0 is about 1/2 flex stiffer in the butt and center section of the shaft than is the S2S Black S flex, but both of the shafts have very close to the same tip section stiffness. So if your 5 iron swing speed is 80-85 mph and you also have a strong, forceful transition to start the downswing with an aggressive downswing tempo and a later release, the PX might be a little better fit. But if you have a 75-85mph 5 iron speed with a slightly aggressive transition and tempo that is not super aggressive, then the Black 85 S would be the better fit.

      Thanks and hope this helps,

  14. I built the 919THI 11 degree driver for a friend of mine 3 years ago. I put the Grafalloy Lite stiff shaft in it and I hate the day he bought it. He is hitting this club farther than the rest in our group and is not missing many fairways. He is very happy and I can’t blame him.I had heart surgery this spring so I am delaying building one for me. Can’t wait.

    • RANDY

      Well at least you do know that you will be able to get a 919THI driver so you can catch up with the guy in your group!! And for sure, we are glad to hear you are over the health issues with your heart surgery so you can get back up to speed and back into playing more!!


  15. Tom I have a 919 11 degree head with a regular flex Tour Spec shaft that was built for me 3 years ago.
    While it has a very high launch of 14.5 to 15.5 degrees I seem to have lost distance since switching from my Titleist 912 with a blue shaft.
    Also my spin rate is over 3200 rpm.
    3600 with a Pro V1.
    Is this normal?
    If not then do I need a different shaft or maybe a 9 degree head?
    Any ideas?


    • LOUIS

      It is not possible to comment on whether a particular launch angle or spin rate is too high or not unless we know the golfer’s clubhead speed and their angle of attack into the ball. For a golfer with an 80-90 mph clubhead speed and level to slightly downward angle of attack, a launch angle of 14.5 to 15.5 with 3200 spin would be quite acceptable. But for a golfer with a 100-110mph clubhead speed and upward angle of attack, those numbers would be too much. However, one thing for sure, if the launch angle and spin are too high for your swing, the number one and only best way to bring that down is to play with a lower loft on the driver head than what you hit now.


  16. The S2S Black 85 is a fantastic shaft for those that have a fairly strong swing, but yet want the benefits that graphite provides. Keep up the great work WG!

    • DAN

      THANK YOU! We tend to get more attention for our clubhead designs, but we do take our shaft design work VERY seriously and are very proud of what we know about shaft performance and research and proud of our ability to determine exactly how stiff any shaft needs to be at every point on the shaft to be able to fit the various swing types.

      Best wishes!!


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