S2S BLACK 85
GRAPHITE IRON SHAFTS
Wishon Golf’s Heavier Weight 85g Graphite Iron Shaft Design with Softer Bend Profile for the R Flex but Stronger Bend Profile for the S Flex…
Features:
- S2S Black Graphite Shafts are created with an improved, slightly stiffer tip bend profile design for golfers with Transition/Tempo/Release ratings from 2 to 3.
- S2S Black 85 Iron Shafts are designed for golfers with more aggressive swing characteristics who have a Strength rating of 1.5 to 2, OR who may be stronger but simply prefer the lighter total weight feel from an 85g shaft versus a conventional steel iron shaft.
© COPYRIGHT 2024 WISHON GOLF
I’m making the switch from steel to graphite to help out with pretty severe tennis elbow and finger arthritis. Mizuno’s swing DNA machine matches me to a Dynamic Gold 105 or C-Taper Lite shaft on the border between regular and stiff flex. I’ve hit the UST Recoil 95 and quite liked the feel and the performance. My driver clubhead speed is right at 100mph and my 7 iron clubhead speed right at 80mph. I’ve tried truly lightweight graphite irons shafts (55 – 65gr) and found it to be very difficult to feel what the club is doing. Based on that… Read more »
Callin Based on what you said in your comment, the closest S2S shaft we would have that might fit your requirements would be the S2S Black in S flex. This is an 85g raw weight shaft so it is well above the 55-65g range you want to stay away from. The Black is also designed with a firm stiff tip section which makes it more for players with a later to very late release – FYI Ctaper and Dyn Gold are also stiff tip section designs. It is always smart when checking out a shaft you have never hit, to… Read more »
I swing my 8 iron 36.5 inches around 80 mph… and I was wondering what shaft should I get black white or red for my single length Eq1nx iron set
JASON The selection of the shaft has to do with more than clubhead speed. Your tempo, strength , downswing transition force and especially the point you release the club on the downswing (when you unhinge the wrist cock on the downswing) all play a very important role. If you have avg tempo and not too forceful of a transition move to start the downswing AND a midway release, the WHITE would be the better choice among the S2S graphite shaft models. The Black is better for players who are a little above average strength, with a slightly to moderately aggressive… Read more »
Tom … I wanted to try single length, so I purchased a used set of EQ! irons with S2S black R shafts. Irons are 37″ long. Not sure if the shaft is a good fit for me or not. I’m 74 years old, 6′ 4″ tall and 193 pounds. People always comment about what nice tempo I have. I do not swing aggressively. I hit my 7 iron 135 / 140. I do feel I need another inch on the length. If I were to put extensions in the shafts would the shaft be anywhere close to what you’d think… Read more »
Tom, what current iron shaft is closest to the Interflexx Mid/Low stiff shaft?
BOB
That would be the S2S White iron shaft as the closest to the old Interflexx.
TOM
Having a one-length swing speed of 82-88 (7iron) and the S2S BLACK 85 being for a 75-85 5iron swing, will this work for me? and should it be tip cut for the extra swing speed? I have a 3.0 swing tempo and average release and aggression.
Keith Unless you have a very aggressive downswing move at the ball AND a very late release to go with that, I think the normal tip trim on the Black iron shaft would be fine. If you play the single length irons at 8 iron or 7 iron length, that’s short enough that just from the normal tip trim and shorter length, the shaft should not be even close to being too flexible, or noticeably flexible. Only if you really pour on the coals on the downswing would I think about more tip trim. And remember, if you go with… Read more »
Thanks Tom. I have a fitting for the Eq1’s on Thursday In Tuam Ireland (I currently have sterlings but was not fit for them)
Keith
Good luck to you in the fitting and I hope you’re completely satisfied with the end result!!
TOM
Hi Tom, sounds like my comments were not register at the site; would like to ask you a couple of questions: regardless of the golfer preference, would you recommend graphite over steel for a medium hdcp 10-20 middle age 40-50 male golfer?If so, would the graphite shaft be closer to the current steel weight i.e. 90 gr steel to this S2S 85 gr?I know you consider hybrids to have the same length than the iron the substitute, do you consider graphite shaft must be the same length than steel even if the golfer plays -1/2″ shorter?Many thanks in advance. Cheers… Read more »
Alvaro Sorry if there was some delay or mistake in handling your question. But thanks so much for taking the time to stop by to ask. The decision for whether to play graphite or steel comes down to these things. 1) strength and clubhead speed of the golfer. As golfers get older and lose strength or otherwise lose strength from some other reason(s), it can be good to go with graphite shafts to lower the total weight of the clubs so the clubs do not become too heavy or too cumbersome to swing. Same for if the player has been… Read more »
Hi Tom, nothing to apologise, thanks for taking the time to answer in such detailed way, really appreciate that. If I’m not mistaken you also propose in your books that, as a general rule, a golfer should always play the lightest shaft which is able to control. So if trajectory and smash factor are maximised with a specific shaft, then the weight of the shaft should be pointless, am I right?
Alvaro I would not say he weight of the shaft is ever pointless. It can be one of the keys to making a golf club perform better for a player than a previous one. And in that sense, it is very important. Please do realize there are many reasons why a golf club may perform better than another one for a golfer. Length is critical to get right for the golfer, headweight (swingweight) can be extremely important for most golfers, often times more important than shaft weight because we use our hands and arms when we swing and the hands… Read more »
Thanks Tom, always though shaft weight dictates the overall performance of the club and head weight were pretty much the same in almost every manufacturer
Alvaro With all of the big companies, since they build their clubs to one series of standard specs so they can be shipped to retailers to sell off the rack, yes, they will have one standard head weight and one standard shaft weight only. Since we sell our models only to custom clubmakers as components, that means there is no standard for anything in terms of the custom fitting aspect we push and believe in so much. That’s why every head has a weight bore and sometimes more than one – so the clubmaker can have the ability to customize… Read more »
Hi Tom,
What would you suggestion be for tipping the S2S Black iron shaft for a high swing speed player? The Black S2S is giving the player the most comfortable MOI for a set of EQ1-NX built to 37.”
This particular golfer swings their 37″ 7i consistently around 94 mph. Very strong, late release, and not to harsh of a transition. Also, a fast downswing tempo and acceleration.
I’m thinking about an inch should do it given the Black now has a slightly stiff tip section than before.
Thanks!
Nathan
You’d want to tip at least one inch, based on what you said. When not sure of something like this, if the player has good patience, it is not a bad idea to take ONE of the irons and build it with the +1″ tip trim and have the player go hit it to offer some decent feedback before you go out and tip all the shafts. Then from the feedback if you find it needs to be different for the tip trim, you have only trashed one shaft possibly.
TOM
Hi Tom,
Would a 660-IR-S iron shaft, soft stepped by 1″ have a similar bend profile and flight characteristics with a TT Dynalite 105gms R flex? Or would the tip still be very stiff and produce a low launch? Thanks.
Pavan I am sorry I cannot answer that question as definitively as needed because I do not have the bend profile measurements for the actual Dynalite 105 shaft. I have data for the Dynalite Gold and the Dynalite 100 from over 4 yrs ago but I have no data on shafts that were introduced new to the industry since 2017. If the Dynalite 105 is different in bend profile than these other two shafts with the Dynalite name, then I would be just guessing to give you an answer. If the 105 is close to the same as the 100,… Read more »
Great point. Lofts do tend to all over the place. The irons were bent 2 degrees stronger by my club fitter to be more in line with the irons they replaced.
Have had a set of 771 irons with the Black 85 shafts (reg flex) for a little over a year. Was fitted and clubs were moi matched. The fitting process was great and the irons are superb. Very consistent center strikes and straight. Issue is I am 1-1.5 club shorter with a very high ball flight than any other irons I’ve played. Any suggestions on changes to try? Shaft too soft? Too light? Swingweight has been measured at C8. I went to a lighter grip to to get to D0. I know that is a static measurement but willing to… Read more »
Just looking for some general advice. I was fitted with a set of 771 irons, black 85 regular shafts over a year ago. The fitting process was great and the irons are the best I’ve ever hit. My question is that I hit every club in the bag 1 to 1.5 club shorter (and much higher) than any other set I’ve played with. Any advice on what the issue may be? Shaft too light/flexible? Clubs were moi matched and I have consistent center strike, straight shots.
TIM thanks very much for taking your time to stop in and ask for some answers. The answer comes from the recent trend among the big companies in the golf equipment industry to start lowering the loft angles on all their irons in their on going desire to keep selling irons that hit the ball longer. Using the 5 iron as an example of what I am talking about, back when the 771CSI irons were designed, the average loft of a 5 iron in a set was 26*, just what the spec for the loft is on the 771 #5… Read more »
Hi Tom my name is Mike Reay I’m currently getting my clubs built by powergolf in St Catharines Ontario the owner’s name is Brian I’m not quite sure if you know him but if you do just wondering if I’m in good hands or should I look elsewhere thank you very much
MIKE
You’d be talking about Brian Morrissey and yes, for sure, Brian is a VERY GOOD clubfitter. I’ve known him in this business for a good long time and I know from many back and forths on technical discussions about fitting and golf club performance that he is very good. You’ll be in good, capable hands in working with Brian for your fitting needs. And do have fun and ask all the questions that come into your mind because he really is knowledgeable and will make your fitting experience to be very enjoyable and educational.
TOM
Currently have Recoil 95 F4 in my Ping I irons. Not too happy with the feel (a little harsh and stiff) plus a loss in overall distance. Swing speed with 5 iron is 80 mph. Am scheduled for a fitting to change shafts but wanted your opinion or recommendation.
TIM Please excuse me but it is very difficult to pinpoint a shaft flex problem for a player by email. Shaft flex fitting really requires seeing the player’s swing characteristics that have an effect on bending of the shaft, as well as to be able to assess other shafts of different design to determine what shaft characteristics are good and less good, preferred and not wanted, by the golfer. I do not have full bend profile measurement data on the Recoils since UST changed their minds and refused to support our bend profile data base anymore. So I do not… Read more »
Hey Tom I appreciate your advice. I know by email it’s kinds like looking for a needle in a haystack. I think I’m in good hands with CJ at Golf Maestro. I’m sure I’ll find a Wishon shaft that fits the bill. Will let you know my success story. Thanks again!
TIM I am glad you posted so I could echo the comment about CJ being a REALLY good clubmaker to work with for your fitting needs. He used to be out in our neck of the woods here in Colorado some years back before he moved to NC to set up shop at Golf Maestro. He’s a good man, he knows his stuff and you will walk away with a good experience and a good fit in the clubs! Thanks much for your interest and your support and the very best to you in this great game. Do be sure… Read more »
Hey Tom, Had the pleasure working with CJ today to work out my Recoil issue. Found out the Recoils were extremely stiff and the head weights were all over the place. It’s a miracle I could even hit a golf ball. CJ was absolute great in the process. It was amazing the extremes he went to in getting me comfortable behind the ball. I’ve gone thru a lot of fitting sessions (so called!) but nothing like today. The best part of it all was that once I hit the 771 irons my Pings were second rate at best. I don’t… Read more »
TIM Wow, how nice is that to hear that you really were able to find out what a big difference it can be to be custom fit by a professional in the field like CJ is. I’m glad you took the time to find him and that you were able to work with him for your fitting needs. There are only about 200 to maybe 250 clubmakers on a par with CJ in the world, guys who really have studied the craft and have the experience to know how to keep working to nail down the proper specs for golfers… Read more »
Tom,
I have a player with a 5-iron speed of 95 mph and Transition-Tempo-Release-Strength of 3-3-3-3. Your Shaft Fitting Program indicates a S2S Red S shaft for his irons. Unfortunately, the S2S Red Iron shafts are no longer available. As a replacement to the S2S Red S Iron, I am leaning toward the S2S Black 85 S Iron tipped an additional 1 inch. What say you? And when with the Shaft Fitting program be updated to remove the S2S Red Iron shafts?
Thanks,
Ronnie
RJ the Clubmaker
RONNIE Yes, it is too bad when we have to drop a product that could key into a segment of golfers pretty well. But every single one of these decisions is made on the basis of how well does it sell. If few buy it, we can’t keep it. I think perhaps a good number of people were scared off by the Red shaft, thinking it was WAY too stiff. It’s too bad because it was a good fit for the aggressive very late release player. Bit going with an inch extra tip trim on the Black would be fine… Read more »
Hi Tom,
Like another gentleman with questions, I too am an ex-Golfsmith customer and have built numerous sets of irons and woods over the years, and have had much success. I purchased a loft/lie and swing weight machine years ago, because I play left handed and got tired of the rack selection in all the golf shops. I would like to have future access to things such as shafts and grips, since you do not appear to have a wide selection of lefty designs. What would I need to do to accomplish this?
Thanks in advance,
Chuck Crookshanks
CHUCK On behalf of the whole clubmaking industry, let me apologize for the lack of left hand models available. It’s a tough thing to have to accept because in all my years of designing clubheads, never once have I seen a left hand model sell more than 8% of the units it will in the RH version. So that means before a smaller company can bring out a LH version of a model, that RH version has to do some decent unit sales so when the 8% statistic kicks in, the numbers can be enough to justify the cost of… Read more »
How do your Black Iron shafts compare to UST Recoil 780 or Recoil 95 shafts that I have experience with? I am very satisfied with the recoils, but they are not offered by the builder who is making a set of Sterling SL Irons for me.
DAVID The UST Recoil shafts are a better player’s shaft in that they are designed with a firm tip section in the profile. Better player’s shafts always are made that way because better players have a later to very late release and that type of release puts more bending action on the tip section in the last part of the downswing before impact. Hence the firm tip for later release players is there to prevent the shot from ballooning too high and to keep the shaft bending feel before impact from feeling too soft. Our S2S Black 85 graphite iron… Read more »
Thanks Tom. That makes complete sense. And, in fact, I prefer D3 to D4 swingweight.
Thanks and happy to help. In fact, I just got back to my computer from the back where I bent your lies to the 3 flat spec you requested. Also double checked the lofts to be right on.
Thanks very much,
TOM
I’m about to build a single length Sterling set. My 5 iron swing speed is 83 and I have a late release. I’m 66 years old and want the benefit of shock absorption of graphite. Will the Black 85S be a good fit with the single length? I now play KBS Tour 90 in the 550C and have lost a little distance with them this year. Hit the 8 iron about 158 carry down from 162. A concern is that the Black will allow a much higher trajectory and possible further loss in distance with the single length especially in… Read more »
MIKE: First off, thanks for your interest. Lots to talk about here to help you so bear with me as I explain. If the firm tip design of the KBS Tour 90 has been a good match for your swing, then yes, among the graphite shafts we offer, the Black 85 would be the best choice since it is a firm tip profile aimed at players with a later to late release. I’m 65 myself so as a fellow senior who is as well seeing a little decay of the clubhead speed, I can tell you that the drop down… Read more »
Tom,
I am using using the 775HS 3 and 4hybrids with UST Recoil 808 F4 iron shafts. Love this combination. I would like to add a 2 hybrid but thinking of using your S2S shaft. Could you make a recommendation as to which shaft would have the same characteristics?
Steve
Steven:
Seriously, if you hit the combination of the 775 hybrid heads + REcoil shafts very well, there is absolutely no reason to deviate from this combination. None. To do so asks for “trouble” because you would be introducing another variable to this process of trying to find your best playing and feeling clubs.
TOM
Tom do you sell the S2S graphite to club makers not affiliated with you. I have played your Snake Eyes Fire Forged (maroon logo) irons for years but could never find another set as a backup. Then someone told me you opened your own shop. I have a set of the Wishon 752TC heads (still looking for the fire forged) and want to play them myself. I am searching for a 85 to 95 gram stiff shaft for the heads. If you will sell the S2S Black 85 graphite shafts what will the price be. I appreciate your time.
Kelly
Kelly
My apology for the delay in responding. Somehow the website quit sending me notifications of posts so I did not catch that glitch until today. Sure we can work with you, if you would send us an email at contact@wishongolf.com and we will be glad to let you know the pricing and all information for setting up an account.
Thanks very much,
TOM
i’ve been messing around with different clubs, steel shaft and iron shaft, etc. trying to find a set which really felt good to swing, where consistent, and, which provided decent distance. Tried weighting, different grips and more. Was slowly clossing in on it. Think I may finally be almost there. I bought a Black S2S 85 Graphite Iron shaft based on an experience with a manufacturers heavy graphite hybrids. I put in on a Ping I5 5 iron (graphite) and hit it today. It felt like a natural extension of my body. All shots were in the 170-180 yard range… Read more »
Brett: Thanks so much for taking your time to share your experience with your search for the right shaft and fitting specs for your swing, That’s really nice to hear that you noticed enough of a difference when you installed the S2S Black 85 iron shaft to see a visible improvement in your shotmaking. FYI I changed over to this Black 85 shaft in my own personal iron set (560MC forged, the best game improvement forging in the game today !! [HA!]) One word about our hybrid shaft designs. I designed all our hybrid shaft designs with a 0.335 tip… Read more »
How do these compare in stiff to a project x graphite iron 6.0? I know the torque is the same and the weight of these is less..
MRS The Project X graphite 6.0 is about 1/2 flex stiffer in the butt and center section of the shaft than is the S2S Black S flex, but both of the shafts have very close to the same tip section stiffness. So if your 5 iron swing speed is 80-85 mph and you also have a strong, forceful transition to start the downswing with an aggressive downswing tempo and a later release, the PX might be a little better fit. But if you have a 75-85mph 5 iron speed with a slightly aggressive transition and tempo that is not super… Read more »
I built the 919THI 11 degree driver for a friend of mine 3 years ago. I put the Grafalloy Lite stiff shaft in it and I hate the day he bought it. He is hitting this club farther than the rest in our group and is not missing many fairways. He is very happy and I can’t blame him.I had heart surgery this spring so I am delaying building one for me. Can’t wait.
RANDY
Well at least you do know that you will be able to get a 919THI driver so you can catch up with the guy in your group!! And for sure, we are glad to hear you are over the health issues with your heart surgery so you can get back up to speed and back into playing more!!
TOM
Tom I have a 919 11 degree head with a regular flex Tour Spec shaft that was built for me 3 years ago.
While it has a very high launch of 14.5 to 15.5 degrees I seem to have lost distance since switching from my Titleist 912 with a blue shaft.
Also my spin rate is over 3200 rpm.
3600 with a Pro V1.
Is this normal?
If not then do I need a different shaft or maybe a 9 degree head?
Any ideas?
Thanks,
Louis
LOUIS It is not possible to comment on whether a particular launch angle or spin rate is too high or not unless we know the golfer’s clubhead speed and their angle of attack into the ball. For a golfer with an 80-90 mph clubhead speed and level to slightly downward angle of attack, a launch angle of 14.5 to 15.5 with 3200 spin would be quite acceptable. But for a golfer with a 100-110mph clubhead speed and upward angle of attack, those numbers would be too much. However, one thing for sure, if the launch angle and spin are too… Read more »
The S2S Black 85 is a fantastic shaft for those that have a fairly strong swing, but yet want the benefits that graphite provides. Keep up the great work WG!
DAN
THANK YOU! We tend to get more attention for our clubhead designs, but we do take our shaft design work VERY seriously and are very proud of what we know about shaft performance and research and proud of our ability to determine exactly how stiff any shaft needs to be at every point on the shaft to be able to fit the various swing types.
Best wishes!!
TOM